Why are Londoners so child un-friendly ??

[unhappyinlondon]

I have become so frustrated with trying to make friends with other parents since my DS was born that I thought I would try and may be find some answers on this website.

DS is now 13 months old and despite numerous attempts to find friends, companions, coffee mates, etc. by various means (this website, other websites, toy libraries, NCT, etc) I have totally failed.

I am a very extroverted, happy, smiley individual with an absolutely adorable, gorgeous, smiley and happy 13 month old son. So what's wrong ?

Two recent experiences, I went to a baby birthday party at the invitation of a mother I had met through this website who had her own established mother & baby group - DH, DS and I arrived all happy and jolly thinking we would all have a good time. The hostess greets us, shows us the kitchen, says help yourself to drinks and that's that. She doesn't even bother to introduce us to her husband or parents, DH, DS and I are left sitting in a corner, no one talks to us, people stare at our baby, and that's that. We feel so uncomfortable we leave after 10 mins. flat.

Second example, I went to a local toy library, a well-known and popular one frequented by many local mums with babies and toddlers, no one talks to us, although I try to open up conversations with a few of the mothers, one mother nearly treads on DS's little fingers while he is crawling, and then looks down towards him in total horror as though it's his fault for getting in the way. DS tries to grab another mother's handbag from a chair (he does the same to my hand bag at home, loves to pull everything out and then put them back inside again). I stop son from grabbing woman's handbag and I look at her and say jokingly with a huge smile "he loves handbags" - she looks back at me with a horrid angry face as though DS has done something awful - he is only 13 months old for God's sake !

I have lived in the UK and another European country since 1977. I have lived in London for over 14 years. I have a British passport and so does DS. We are white caucasians (sorry to bring up the subject of race) and I have a "posh" British accent due to private education here in the UK. I live in an affluent part of London, i.e. I am just trying to say that physically and in other respects we do not stand out from our London neighbours.

But experiences like these since DS was born make me feel like an outcast. I have made two relatively good friendships with women from my ante natal clases, but due to travel distance I hardly ever see them now.

I am so unhappy, I keep planning to leave the UK for somewhere more child friendly. But DH has work commitments here and this fact stops us from leaving.

Does anyone else have similar experiences ??

Heybaby, things in the countryside are actually not that different from your experience.

People move in and out of the area, some people already have a bunch of friends with babies to hang out with, some people are still adjusting to motherhood and may not be feeling at all themselves when they meet you, etc.

Persistence works wonders, especially sticking to pretty much the same set of activities each week (particularly the ones which have a fairly constant bunch of mums attending).

I think the ideal of the clique of mummy friends is probably oversold tbh. I would find it a bit claustrophobic myself.

Hope no-one minds me sticking my oar in here but UnhappyInLondon sounded depressed to me. I suffer from depression (periodically, not all the time!) and recognise classic "depressive thinking" when I see it. So although she may have come across as a bit negative, and shrill, and irrational in her posts, I think there is much more to it than just what she describes. She says it was the same at university and at work. I can relate to this but I have come to understand that it is my depression and my own patterns of thinking and behaving which have led me to this point, not that everyone else is being cruel, or that the English are a nation of unfriendly b**tards! And in particular since I have had my sons, I have found that the relative isolation of being a SAHM has fed the tendency to depressive thinking and made baby groups/socialising with other mums virtually impossible. It is hard enough without having a predisposition to feeling ostracised and unwanted. She probably won't like me much for this. But I think it needs saying. Often people whose lives are being blighted by depression are the last to see it.

(slinking away to hide behind big rock)

meanoldmummy - sorry to hear you are or were depressed. In fact I think all mothers must go through a phase of depression at some stage. However, that does not make EVERYONE who agrees that Londoners are unfriendly with children depressed, does it ? There are many, many, childless people I know who say exactly the same things. I have known at least 3 friends move away to other countries because they got fed up of not being able to meet friendly, sociable, whatever you want to call it sort of people here in London. Believe you me, none of them were depressed or unhappy with life. They were just unhappy in London !!

No, of course not, and I made no such generalisation. I think many people would certainly agree that London can be quite a cutthroat environment and that big cities are daunting and impersonal. I was referring to her particular posts and the way she came across to me. She sounds depressed, to me. Not everyone does!?!?

hey unhappyinlondon - suprised you could find any english people to be rude to you. I lived in central West London and after I gave up work trawled desperately to find someone who wasnt french, italian, american .... or an east european ,australian, phillipino nanny. But no english.

I hated it and am now happily ensonced in the very english, very friendly suburbs..

Klauz - can one conclude then that you don't like living with foreigners ? well done !

Carolina Moon - thanks for your message. Believe me, that is the plan Stan! Persistence and regular activities that is ....

Chicagomum - how awful! What a terrible experience! Just plain rude if you ask me. Especially in your own home! You don't want to know those type of people anyway ....

Klauz- you would have to be very English to be happy to live were you live. I am not very English and hate certain English attitutdes to foreigners, so guess what, I would give an arm and a leg to be surrounded by foreigners !

I live in west London and I love the fact there is such a mix of nationalities here.

So ner

Nanneh, where did you live before you moved to London?

Isn't it funny how the English are the only race it's acceptable to be openly rude about!!

meanoldmummy - no the English are not the only people one can be openly rude about. What I like about being English is that we have the ability to be rude to OURSELVES and laugh at ourselves. That is what the great British sense of humour is famous for. I don't see it happening on this thread though I am afraid.

Mercy - I used to live in Southampton and before that in lots of different countries. My father was a businessman so I was fortunate enough to live all over the world.

Gosh - I am not xenophobic - maybe I should change that to not liking living with european merchant bankers and there wives. Not posh enough or rich enough to live in south kensington.

Some of the most vacous people I have ever found. And every time I started a conversation in the playground they were a nanny, not really interested in hanging out with mums.

Really Nanneh? So which other nationality would I be allowed to criticise and make generalisations about without people yelling "racist"?

I tend only to laugh when something funny has been said, personally. I haven't seen much wit or good humour on this thread so far.

I think we're allowed to be openly rude about Americans too

Maybe we need a new thread

Klauz - yes your last post did come across as being a bit anti-foreign. Yes, totally agree with what you have said about merchant bankers and their wives. Many of those types are my neighbours. I used to be a City professional myself and can identify the type you are talking about. I gave it all up to become a very happy SAHM and have nver looked back since. I hated the City atmosphere.

twig

I haven't had the chance to read all of these posts so am just responding to the thread title, hope I haven't repeated what anyone else has said.

Having not lived in London for a number of years I was a little inexplicably nervous about going there with ds to visit my b(est)f.
It was such a pleasant experience with almost everyone we encountered fussing over him, talking to him/opening doors for us/cars going out of their way to stop for us/ that we now go regularly to visit her. It's friendlier there than here in Kent, the middle of the 'burbs, perhaps it's just a lovely/friendly area that she lives in!

meanoldmummy - the Londoners were so defensive it was difficult to say anything funny without being even more offensive !!

Oh yes, well, Americans!