Why are Londoners so child un-friendly ??

[unhappyinlondon]

I have become so frustrated with trying to make friends with other parents since my DS was born that I thought I would try and may be find some answers on this website.

DS is now 13 months old and despite numerous attempts to find friends, companions, coffee mates, etc. by various means (this website, other websites, toy libraries, NCT, etc) I have totally failed.

I am a very extroverted, happy, smiley individual with an absolutely adorable, gorgeous, smiley and happy 13 month old son. So what's wrong ?

Two recent experiences, I went to a baby birthday party at the invitation of a mother I had met through this website who had her own established mother & baby group - DH, DS and I arrived all happy and jolly thinking we would all have a good time. The hostess greets us, shows us the kitchen, says help yourself to drinks and that's that. She doesn't even bother to introduce us to her husband or parents, DH, DS and I are left sitting in a corner, no one talks to us, people stare at our baby, and that's that. We feel so uncomfortable we leave after 10 mins. flat.

Second example, I went to a local toy library, a well-known and popular one frequented by many local mums with babies and toddlers, no one talks to us, although I try to open up conversations with a few of the mothers, one mother nearly treads on DS's little fingers while he is crawling, and then looks down towards him in total horror as though it's his fault for getting in the way. DS tries to grab another mother's handbag from a chair (he does the same to my hand bag at home, loves to pull everything out and then put them back inside again). I stop son from grabbing woman's handbag and I look at her and say jokingly with a huge smile "he loves handbags" - she looks back at me with a horrid angry face as though DS has done something awful - he is only 13 months old for God's sake !

I have lived in the UK and another European country since 1977. I have lived in London for over 14 years. I have a British passport and so does DS. We are white caucasians (sorry to bring up the subject of race) and I have a "posh" British accent due to private education here in the UK. I live in an affluent part of London, i.e. I am just trying to say that physically and in other respects we do not stand out from our London neighbours.

But experiences like these since DS was born make me feel like an outcast. I have made two relatively good friendships with women from my ante natal clases, but due to travel distance I hardly ever see them now.

I am so unhappy, I keep planning to leave the UK for somewhere more child friendly. But DH has work commitments here and this fact stops us from leaving.

Does anyone else have similar experiences ??

I am a Mexican and I do UNDERSTAND what it is like not to be able to make any friends. I am very easy to talk to and friendly but mothers here in Nottingham are very relunctant. I hope it is not because of the race issue, but I must admit I always feel very uncomfortable and stared at when attending playgroups and unfortunately my DD doesn't make things easy for being so clingy.

I must admit that I do feel really alone and I truly doubt to find a friend, coffee mates. etc. I do like meeting all different types of people but they don't seem to be interested in any type of socialising.

I am torturing myself doing this for the sake of my girl as I haven't got any family or relatives around.

I am glad I am not the only one who feels like me. It's something really really sad!!! I am afraid there is absolutely nothing we can do about it so eventually I believe we'll be just like them!!

I see that the last entry on this thread is pretty old but it reflected exactly how I have been feeling recently. I had these visions of having a nice little network of friends and their babies but BOY was I naive!

The antenatal group I joined had couples from every part of London and most of them didn't end up turning up to the classes. Since DS was born 3 months ago, I have been to breastfeeding workshops, mother and baby groups, rhyme time sessions etc but whilst I have met some nice people most of them are only one-off incidents so I haven't been able to develop friendships. I totally agree about the clicks but I guess you have to meet people who you get one with and not just other new mums for the sake of it... I don't understand however why some new mums aren't supportive and inclusive of other new mums. Is it an insecurity issue?

It all came to a head last week when I went to a baby group. Only about 5 mums turned up and I had met three of them already. Whilst they were talking it became apparent that they already had a coffee group going and then one of the mums asked another for her phone number (because she was thinking of starting up another group) right in front of me! Geez, I have to say that I felt like I was back in high school trying to fit in again. So I was at a pretty low point last week. But after some moral support from my husband I am back out there again and have planned a full week of activities for baby and me to enjoy and hopefully along the way we'll eventually meet some nice friends. If the mountain won't come to Mohammad and all ....

Has anyone else had this experience?

heybaby - where abouts do you live ? i agree that you need to meet people with similar interests, not just "mums". i have found it really difficult meeting like-minded mothers and the only lasting friendship i have is with another mother whom i met at my nct antenatal classes. unfortuntaley she has been living in Japan since our sons were born, but we have so much in common we are now "email" friends and one day when she moves back to the UK i am sure our sons will become good friends too.
My DS is now 18 months old and i have tried and tried to meet as many mothers as possible, without much success. i go to my LLL meetings once a month, but again no friendships have been formed, not from lack of trying, as i am extremely friendly and open with people. some how i have begun to accept that other people just don't want to be as friendly as me, for whathever reason.
i agree with the comment about Londoners. you only have to go to other countries where children are really really loved, like the Mediterranean countries, to see how differently babies are treated there. i have never found London a friendly place although i have lived here for 20 years. in fact i have dreams of moving to Italy one day (learning Italian already !) partly because they adore children and they are welcomed wherever you take them.

That's bollocks no we're not.

Nanneh - Thanks for your message. I live in NW London. I think London is just like any other big city really. As I said I have met some lovely mums but usually once-off only. Will just have to fling inhibition out the window next time and swap phone numbers when I initially meet them just in case I never bump into them again I suppose! Funnily enough, since writing my message I have been out there in babyland with a vengeance and bumped into a former colleague from work and some other mums who I'd met before. I am now actually meeting up with some of the mums this week which is nice. As I said, if the mountain won't come to Mohammad ....

ladbroke - you are obviously a Londoner ? wonderful that you could sum up your logic with the word "bollocks". Nice one !!

Nanneh - where do you live?

you obv live in the wrong bit everyone is very friendly where i live!

ladbroke - I live in NW too. if you fancy meeting up (Brent X ?) CAT me. you sound lovely !!

I tend to think that if you are the sort of person who makes sweeping negative generalisations about the millions of people who all happen to live in one city, then perhaps you need to look a little closer to home to find out why you are lonely. It's hardly the kind of attitude that makes people rush to be your best friend.

very true Aloha

We're lovely.

HeyBaby - I live near NW too. If you fancy meeting up CAT me. It would be lovely to meet you.

Perhaps ladbroke would like to join us to prove how friendly she is

Mums from London - please don't take offense. I didn't start this thread - just added a message to it! There are friendly and then less friendly mums out there just like any other city. I did say that I HAD met some friendlies but unfortunately hadn't bumped into them since initial meeting. This is not a "HATE LONDON" campaign - after all it is OUR choice to live here right?!

Everyone please calm down now!

Nanneh and Heybaby, with fear of being rejected yet again (see further down the thread ) I am slighlty further north than you 2 (woodside park) but frequenlty travel to nw11 area so would be happy to meet up.

aloha - did anyone here use the word "lonely" ?
I certainly didn't. I have loads of friends and relatives in London, not all of them are mothers though and not all have children my son's age.

I was pointing out meeting NEW people (i.e. other mothers) when one first has a baby, similar to Heybaby's experience. If you are lucky enough to meet lots of lovely, like-minded mothers who are friendly with your child the minute your child is born, fine and dandy. It's not true for all of us.

Heybaby, I think it's that for many mums in the early months it's hard to get out and about much, especially if you have older children or are returning to work after maternity leave. Hence you may not see the same faces at various groups for weeks on end, if ever again. You obviously have bags of energy!

chicago - please CAT me !

Nanneh, hence the need for mumsnet!

ps I don't agree that all Mediterranean countries are super child-friendly btw. I felt somewaht let down by some attitudes in Spain but stunned by amazing responses in Belgium and the Czech Republic

Nanneh - hate to be dense but what does CAT mean?

Mercy - thanks for understanding.

Am kinda sad about how this thread is panning out actually. As I said in my initial message, you'd hope the new mums would be supportive of each other but it seems to have somehow turned into a defense/offence slinging match!

Mercy - I wasn't suggesting that everyone in the Med. is child friendly, but on the whole the many countries in that region which I have visited, as well as Latin America, Middle East, etc, people are much more warm, much more likely to pick up your child, smile at him, laugh with him, and play with him, etc, etc, than the average Londoner. If Londoners don't agree with thius, than fine. Every single one of my foreign friends says the same thing. I had friends from Rome who made this comments (they have two beautiful little daughters) the minute they arrived in London. It is a very, very noticeable difference in attitude to children compared to their country.

HeyBaby, I think Londoners are defensive because it is hitting a raw nerve. By the way, having lived here for 20 years, I consider myself to be a Londoner !!

That does not mean that I have to object to someone making an interesting, though negative comment (yes, generalisation even) about Londoners.

HeyBaby - CAT = Contact Another Talker. It's at the top of the page, if you click on it it will allow you to email me. Don't worry, I didn't have a clue what it was either until recently. You must be new here ?

Hatbaby, your first post rang true with me as I had a very similar experience with an ante natal group (actually had themin my hous for coffee and they were talking about things they had done the previous week that I wasn't invited to and discussing arangements for the future again not inviting me). I totally understand, but also 3 months is still a little early to have forged good relationships. I think the response is the fact that poeple don't like to be tared with the same brush. Yes if you live in a city you are rather more annonymous than if you live in arural community, and a lot of pepole have experienced less than friendly attitudes in London, but it hurts those (or rather gets their backs up) when they see such a generalisation.

PS It may have been more sucessful if you had started a new thread rather than ressurected on that didn't go favourably for the original poster IYSWIM.

God, how rude of them Chicagomum .

How are things going with your dh's job and your plans to move btw?