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Original poster

Not in the nativity play

226 replies

PrettyHannukahndles · 15/12/2004 16:58

As ds is being brought up Jewish, I chose not to have him perform in his nursery's nativity play next week, but to let him perform in the rest of the nursery's concert. I've learned today that he is now the only child who will not be in the nativity, as all the other non-performing children will not be at nursery that day.

Suddenly he feels left out. I had a talk with the nursery staff, who told me that he needn't come in uniform that day, as all the others would be wearing their costumes. I suggested that he might like to wear a costume as well, so that he will feel more involved. But what sort of costume could he wear? He wants to wear a red-and-white Santa hat with flashing stars (at least, that's what I think he meant by his rather garbled and excited description ). I'm not sure whether that's appropriate - could anyone suggest something?

OP posts:
moondog · 16/12/2004 22:35

Of course Aloha, as has been said, religious festivals often overlay a much much earlier one. However are you consciously celebrating the Pagan roots of Christmas and Easter or just going through the moltions of a trad. Christmas and Easter IYSWIM?

aloha · 16/12/2004 22:35

I also don't happen to think that religion does deserve particular reverence. Perhaps not a popular opinion, and I am concerned it may become an illegal one, but my opinion nonetheless.

Tinker · 16/12/2004 22:36

But the kids don't know they're taking part really do they? They're just acting and singing, teh conecpt of it being an act of worship isn't really involved.

spacedonkey · 16/12/2004 22:38

mmm maybe religion doesn't deserve reverence per se, but i do feel it is important to respect the religious beliefs of others even if one doesn't agree

aloha · 16/12/2004 22:38

I suppose I am celebrating the traditional cultural and secular Christmas of England! This has used trees, lights, food, presents, family and gifts as a way of brightening our winters and, in the case of Easter, celebrating the coming spring, since time immemorial (give or take a few Early Learning Centre toys here and there).

Cinderellascarrieg · 16/12/2004 22:39

Ahah Tinker...that would be the Stealth God Bothering Approach - much like the Christian Union bods who come into our school & entice the kids with their X-Box & party games...!

If it's just acting & singing, why can't they put on a panto instead?

aloha · 16/12/2004 22:40

Do I have to respect other people's belief in astrology? Or the teachings of L Ron Hubbard? I wouldn't be rude to someone's face about their religion or, indeed, their passion for astrology. One of my friends is very keen on astrology indeed. Still think it's absolute c*ap though!

aloha · 16/12/2004 22:41

I think a panto is MUCH better idea!

spacedonkey · 16/12/2004 22:41

Yes, I think you do have to respect others' spiritual beliefs, even if you do think it's a load of crap!

spacedonkey · 16/12/2004 22:41

( agree about the panto btw )

Tinker · 16/12/2004 22:42

Because, unfortunately in my experience, schools seem to have a lot of Christian heads and teachers. However, was at a Catholic christening teh other week and teh priest said "Children don't have a faith" Rather enlightned view for a change

moondog · 16/12/2004 22:42

The only point I am trying to make Twiglett (re your questions on things like religious activities and purchase of Christmas tree) is that I don't see the logic of 1/2 joining in a religous celebration that has no meaning for you and then bemoaning the fact that you feel different/excluded/left out.
Fine,pick and choose the bits you like if that is what you want to do BUT accept the fact that you cannot then expect you or your children to feel completely in on the action.

I didn't get upset at Bayram when noone brought my kid tonnes of sweets the way they do for Turkish kids. That's just the way it is!
It bothered her a bit but hey, tough shit!!

TheHollyAndTheTwiglett · 16/12/2004 22:42

all together now

he's behind you

Tinker · 16/12/2004 22:43

But He doesn't exist

spacedonkey · 16/12/2004 22:43

fnar fnar!

TheHollyAndTheTwiglett · 16/12/2004 22:44

sorry moondog .. I cross-posted then .. wasnt' ignoring you honestly

moondog · 16/12/2004 22:45

Aloha, AFAIK it was Albert, Victoria's spouse who introduced the germanic tradition of decorated trees at Christmas to Britain.

Not so Pagan then.

aloha · 16/12/2004 22:46

But in what way 'respect'? I happen to think that much of religion is utterly wicked as well as fictional (um, I think all faith is a belief in an 'imaginary friend') I would never, ever bang on about this to people in RL of course, though my friends know I don't have any religious belief, but that's politeness, not inherent respect for their belief. If I met that idiot who believes in lizard men from Mars (David Ike?) I wouldn't laugh in his face or anything, but I wouldn't be able to respect his beliefs. And if I go into a cathedral in, say Italy, I will wear proper clothes - their place, their rules, absolutely. But not because I think that what they believe in is right.

TheHollyAndTheTwiglett · 16/12/2004 22:46

there are, IMHO (h standing for humble) many parts of Christmas (and all other festivals) that have NOTHING to do with religion and much to do with family, community and culture

like christmas trees, lights and tinsel, pantomime, roast chestnuts, shopping till you drop etc etc etc

those are the bits I'll pick

TheHollyAndTheTwiglett · 16/12/2004 22:47

but the ancient druids used to light candles in oak trees to worship the god of the harvest in midwinter (I think it was something liek that)

aloha · 16/12/2004 22:48

But in what way 'respect'? I happen to think that much of religion is utterly wicked as well as fictional (um, I think all faith is a belief in an 'imaginary friend') I would never, ever bang on about this to people in RL of course, though my friends know I don't have any religious belief, but that's politeness, not inherent respect for their belief. If I met that idiot who believes in lizard men from Mars (David Ike?) I wouldn't laugh in his face or anything, but I wouldn't be able to respect his beliefs. And if I go into a cathedral in, say Italy, I will wear proper clothes - their place, their rules, absolutely. But not because I think that what they believe in is right.

spacedonkey · 16/12/2004 22:49

See, I find that attitude arrogant. I don't presume to know it all. For all I know, David Icke may be right.

moondog · 16/12/2004 22:49

I'll take that as gospel then Twiglett (no pun intended)!?

Cinderellascarrieg · 16/12/2004 22:49

Point moondog! But the 'having a jolly good party in the middle of the winter to cheer everyone up' thing is fairly universal.

Actually, I'm talking myself OUT of this one here...starting to think it'd be quite sad not to have school Nativity plays to disapprove of. Maybe the answer is to make MORE of a fuss about Diwali/Eid/Hannukkah(sp.?) too...?

aloha · 16/12/2004 22:51

But from where did Christians get the idea of the Christmas tree? Was it a new idea or was The origin of the Christmas tree is actually pretty much contested. However, (and this is from the net) 'Bringing greenery into one's home, often at the time of the winter solstice, symbolized life in the midst of death in many cultures. The Romans decked their homes with evergreens and other greenery during the Kalends of January.Living trees were also brought into homes during the old German feast of Yule, which originally was a two-month feast beginning in November. The Yule tree was planted in a tub and brought into the home.However, the evidence just does not exist which shows that Christians first used trees at Christmas as a symbol of rebirth, nor that the Christmas tree was a direct descendent of the Yule tree.
The fact that it was a tradition first in Germany does NOT mean it is specifically Christian. Germany was pagan too you know!