arabic

[mehdismummy]

hi are there any mums out there with algerian partners out there. Do your dc learn algerian as well if so did it affect what age they started to talk

DH is algerian & DD1 is learning arabic & french (not english at the mo ) She said mum & dad at around 12 months but not much else until 15 - 16 months. She's 18 months now & never stops "talking" She understands & says words in both languages but we can't tell yet if she is mixing them up.

well i speak english to him and dh algerian but we speak english together to him. He speaks english like about twenty odd words but understands alot more in both languages. Its very important for dh and ds that he learns both culture and languages. A bit worried about him learning islam though as dh has strayed a bit! Was your dh at birth? Do you go over there alot. It use to be hard but getting easier now

lol DH was horrified at the thought that he might have to be there at the birth... I was on my own for both DDs & didn't really mind

How old is your DS? DD is 18 months so hasn't got a clue about culture or islam but do want her to learn when she's able to. DH is quite religious & wants the girls to be the same, so I worry a bit about how it will be when the DDs are teenagers. But that's a long way off so best not thinking about it yet!

I've only been to Algeria twice, but one of those times was for 3 months. DH's family have never met the DDs, which is quite sad but hopefully we will be going over this year or next. Do you go over there a lot? I haven't met anybody apart from Algerians who have been there. Do you worry about the terrorists?

0lol my dh would rather have had his eyes pulled out then be there. Luckily my sister was. My ds is two next month. His dad had to choose his name and i was not allowed to eat anything that was not halal whilst i was pregnant or all the time i am bf. Have been over four or five times now. Once for three months in summer when ds was four months old and that was far too long. My dh is a strong believer that women should stay at home. So i find it very very restrictive and even though i love in laws to bits. I even go on my own now. I cant stay longer than two weeks. I have to be honest been worried about bombs especially as one of them was in the town hydra where my in laws live. But dh say its safe, i suppose we quite lucky because dh is big big actor there his family are not badly off but still get very homesick and miss talking english and watching tv! Find dh hard work sometimes though! Would love to keep in contact though as i dont know many mums married to algerian

DH won't eat anything not halal either, and we live in a small village in France where you can't buy halal meat so he's had to turn into a vegetarian for now.

DH & the inlaws didn't like me going out on my own when I was in Algeria, I think they thought that I'd get harrassed by random blokes & not know how to deal with it (although I would have dealt with it fine, thank you!) Once I'd been there for a while I used to go to the shop etc. and internet cafe on my own but tbh there wasn't really anywhere else I could have gone. It was quite a small town & I didn't know anyone there apart from DH's family. Here in France I go out as much as is possible with 2 DDs under the age of 18 months!

I wasn't worried about terrorists when I was there but looking back, maybe I should have been. In the countryside in Kabylie they had armoured cars at nearly every crossroads, and when I saw that I just thought "oh look, it's like on TV" or something. I was only 22 & a bit daft!

gtg there's a baby crying

well i suppose we thought we were quite safe due to the area then they recently bombed there too. I prefer going on my own because dh changes into someone i dont like when he there. Where in france are you. Have you been married long?

Hi,
DH & me of morroccan ascent.
We speak arabic & french & english quite indiscriminately.
He picked up all three languages naturally.
DS now going on 4 and of course fluent in english ("natural" language since started school), very good with french, perfectly understands arabic but shy to reply.
There is no arabic whatsoever in his life other than us, appart the occasional trip to see grandparents. It's definitely hindering him. We are now making a consciencious effort to not speak english and concentrate on arabic. I think he's afraid to sound silly so we just casually give him translations and make him repeat things as a game. it's working so far.

As for Islam, we are very laid back. The only real effort we made is to teach him the "Fatiha" which we recite in the evening as we would tell a story.
He's very proud of himself, say like he would be memorising all the Xmas songs for the school party!
I think there's enough time for that. they pick up a lot instinctively from the way you live. So just set the example and they'll follow.

PS: love the name Mehdi (my brother + 2 nephews, so could not pick that one!)

Are you 2 born and raised muslims?
PS: if that's not too intrusive.....

hi slim no i was born british and have not converted to islam. Though i do think its important that ds knows both of our culture and religions. Dh chose ds name i did not like it at first but it really suits him. It s also quite unusual for here too. Where in morocco are you from? Ds stops what he is doing and goes to lay on daddy when koran comes on tv. And dont worry you were not intrusive

Hello again.
Our family is from Rabat. Quite similar to Alger I think with old citadel and by the sea.
Never been to Algeria for reasons you can guess (we're supposed to hate algerians aren't we and vice versa )
Would love to drive alond the coast. One day hopefully!

We are really not religious so not overly concerned. But it does annoy me that I do not know how to instill a sense of identity.
I mean, he does know where we come from and where our family is. I guess he intuitively understands and I'll leave it at that for now.

I have to say bravo to any western woman who can put up with an arab/mediterranean/muslim (delete/keep what you want) man.
Honestly, don't know how you do it. I would never put up with most of the attitude.
I'm blessed with a very open minded chilled DH. And he, even more than me could not put up with the small town mentality living over there.

its been very hard plenty of rows. Me nearly leaving plenty of times. The lack of affection is the hardest thing for me. He is v good with ds. My sil lives in marakesh but i yet to go there. Apparently she established singer there. Where in england are you?

Was in NW london up to last june. Now expat in Asia!
I know what you mean with lack of affection. It's there most of time. They just can't show it. You have to dig in really deep untill they spit it out don't you?
Well, their father did not exactly show them how to treat a woman did they?
Have to say DH is very good showing respect and loving caring gestures. He so does not want to be like his father and has such a love for his mother who's such a sunny person. He's overconpensating I think and I'm not going to complain!

god that is so true. I think dh gets his behaviour from dad too his mum has not helped by spoiling him all his life. I live in nw london too. Where did you live

hi slim, I'm not muslim either, British/french, I lived in the UK until the age of 23 then moved to France (in the northwest, near Vannes). I have been married to DH since september 2005, and first met him a couple of years before that. I got married & had DD1 just after finishing uni, and moved to France as well (had to as DH speaks french but no english) Going from student to wife & mum just in under a year was so hard to adjust to, I was a bit miserable at first especially as all my friends were back in Britain. We did argue (well, I cried and he got annoyed) a lot but it wasn't really anyone's fault, just circumstances.

I think all DHs family are quite open minded, FIL is lovely but never does housework/cooking etc. I think that DH would have been the same but we have two baby DDs, and if he doesn't help then the house will descend into chaos

hope you're OK mehdismum, maybe with time things will get better? How long have you been with your DH?

Slim just out of interest, did your DS learn all three languages right from the start? I keep thinking I should be teaching DD1 more english, but I don't want her mixing up english & french and not speaking french properly when she starts school!

we been married five years in august. Dh dad same. Think you very brave. Dh didnt speak english either but taught him it. I know what you mean by arguing algerian men dont know how to discuss just shout. Dh makes me mad. I have a really bad migrane at the mo but he still will expect me to cook his dinner. His mother has got alot to answer to.

DH doesn't know how to discuss, but he doesn't shout just gets annoyed goes out & comes back later when he thinks I've forgotten about the problem. I think maybe lots of men are like that, especially if they don't understand what was the matter in the first place.

What will happen if you don't cook his dinner? Can't you just say that you don't feel well & cook something easy, or get him to do it? Or would that just not work?

no that just would not work. He cooks on very rare occasions. He can go weeks being sweet and then can just change really quickly and i become the worst wife in the world useless etc. He scares me when he gets like that because he becomes violent. I remember one particular time in algeria when ds was about five months old. I had been there nearly six weeks when he came out. I had been stuck in the house doing bloody housework in the summer and he just gets there and next day goes straight to beach with friends. Ds got viral bug where he had v high temp and the runs which was all my fault because apparently i let him put things in his mouth. I now know it was because he had a high temp but mil would only give me paracetmol that you put up bum. This didnt work because it gave him the runs. Took him to doctors with sil and they all stood there discussing it in french. I can speak french but as i was so stressed because ds temp was nearly 40 i didnt understand. When i asked got told to f off and nearly hit me in street. Sil just watched. A couple of days after that he was meant to take me out for dinner. Got ready etc waited waited when he finally did turn up after spending all day at beach he said too late we were not going. Had a moan at him and he completly lost it and smashed me in side of face with de oderant can. I screamed ds woke up and fil came in and told dh to go out. The worse thing is that his family did nothing. Alot of love for him died that day. He never apologised and has been violent a couple of times since. Not slept together since before ds was born. No affection nothing. I dont think i even like him not even think about love. Have nowhere to go or money to go. He has destroyed my self confidence. Just think the way they are brought up to think women should do everything is what caused problems

Mehdismummy that's really awful, you shouldn't have to put up with the way he treats you especially the violence. Nothing excuses that, not the way he was brought up or his culture or anything. Do you think he could possibly change, maybe with counselling?

Have you looked on the Relationships discussion board, there are other posters with similar probs & some good advice. There are organisations that can help, like Women's aid etc. What about your own family, are they around?

I wish I could say more to help but I don't know enough about this

Just read your posts.

Slim22 - I'd love to speak to my DC in Arabic, I forget. I speak to them almost always in English and have to force myself to use Arabic which is a real shame. When i'm in an Arabic speaking country it comes very easy to me and use it a lot but when here I just use English, my Arabic has become quite weak too.

Mehdimum - I have heard many stories like this throughout my life. My father is from a neighbouring N.African country and my mum is British - so many 'aunty's' that i grew up around were treated this way, it's not on!! I also can't give any advice really as i've not had to put up with it directly and did not marry an Arab but i do remember a significant change in my DF's whole being when around his family at 'home' - we became so unimportant and i remember as a child the sheer frustration at not knowing what was going on - my poor mum must have had quite a hard time looking back. Chin up. Will be back.

Just read your posts.

Slim22 - I'd love to speak to my DC in Arabic, I forget. I speak to them almost always in English and have to force myself to use Arabic which is a real shame. When i'm in an Arabic speaking country it comes very easy to me and use it a lot but when here I just use English, my Arabic has become quite weak too.

Mehdimum - I have heard many stories like this throughout my life. My father is from a neighbouring N.African country and my mum is British - so many 'aunty's' that i grew up around were treated this way, it's not on!! I also can't give any advice really as i've not had to put up with it directly and did not marry an Arab but i do remember a significant change in my DF's whole being when around his family at 'home' - we became so unimportant and i remember as a child the sheer frustration at not knowing what was going on - my poor mum must have had quite a hard time looking back. Chin up. Will be back.

sorry, DS hitting return key

dh would never go for counselling. He just think its normal to behave that way. Just not gonna let ds grow up like that. He is good with ds however and shows him lots of love

hey, just got messages(time difference)

Mehdismum, honey, you got yourself a real specimen!
You are in the UK, run now. There is help around, don't say you have nowhere to go. Imagine if you where stuck there.
I do not need to tell you, I guess you know all about children kidnapped and taken to muslim countries where you have fewer options to fight back and get away from an abusive marriage.
The advice I would give you is the same as the one that applies to any abusive marriage regardless of race/creed/etc....Get yourself and your child out of harm's way.
So sorry to see this post turn out this way.
We are here if you need help and there are lots of MNers who've been there on other forums.
{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

ChaCha, I was raised by expat parents and arabic is an issue for me too. I spent my childhood in Morocco so speaking comes naturally but not reading and writting. Because of that I'm making extra efforts to speak arabic at home but to be honest even with DH with speak more french and english.
Just try and eventually it will come.
The "ear" (like with music) is very important. As long as your children are used to the sounds, there will be a familiarity with the language.
We spent 1 year in Amsterdam when DS was 2 and he picked up some dutch (now forgotten). We now in Asia and six months down the lin he can say hello and thank you in chinese.
A lot of people say immersion is the key to mastering a language. That is very true. After each holiday in Morocco he's more fluent.
Just try to keep it up at home.

Slim is right.

It isn't normal to behave like this, even if he thinks it is. It isn't normal in Algeria either, although life is different there. Leaving will be hard but staying with him must be hard too... And maybe if you do leave he will understand that his behaviour has to change. If he never changes, at least you won't have to put up with his bullying.

Don't know if you've already seen this website but it might help Women's aid

wish there was more I could say {{{hugs}}}

Mehdismum, think I've upset you.
Just saw your post about guest. Doesn't sound too good either.
Just wanted to give you a hug.
Take care.