Timing of circumcision

[sunhat88]

Hi,

My baby boy is due soon and he will be circumcised. (Please no circumcision debate on this thread). Those of you who have had you baby boys circumcised... what is your opinion on the best age to have it done? Also what was your experience of their recovery?

Thank you

Bertrand - if you think kids are going to go through 8 years of primary school together without ever getting changed together, then you know a different set from ours. Our DS at 4 would struggle to go for 8 hours without whipping it out!

How very strange. Do other people's boys take all their clothes off at school?

Anyway, I don't think peer pressure is a good reason for doing anything.

samG76 It's sad that your community would exclude you if you refused to remove some of your child's genitals. I can see how this kind of pressure would be very difficult to resist. Doesn't make it right though.

Please tell me why it is legal if it is child abuse?

It should be.

And outside the UK there are a number of things that are legal in some countries that we would regard as child abuse such as child 'marriage', beating children, having children work long hours in factories.

Just because millions of children are put through barbaric practices doesn't mean that it's OK.

I have been told that people are shunned within the Jewish community if circumcision is not done.

A child who was raped was shunned by an ultra orthodox group. You risk shunning for talking to someone of the opposite sex or wearing a short sleeved shirt or 100 other things. It is the shunning that is wrong.

sticklebrix - I find this very patronizing. I would have done it absent any community pressure.

The thing is though, male circumsion isn't actually illegal anywhere. Which makes your comparison with child abuse being legal in some countries a bit moot.

Even in countries where there is a lot of pressure to legislate against circumsion it hasn't happened. Australia probably have the tightest regulations but have, like other countries, only tended to prosecute those who have botched circumcisions or families where their parents are in despute as to whether it should be done.

sashh - do you know any of the ultra-orthodox? Your email suggests not. You know it's not a well-defined or even especially homogenous group. And it's not a matter of shunning - people would just leave if they decided not to have a brit. And they're perfectly entitled to do that. No-one would come after them with a baseball bat.

sam I find it difficult to believe that the community pressure you describe plays no role in the decision to circ.

I experienced zero community pressure. Removing some of DS's genitals without his consent never crossed my mind. The idea seems as bizarre as removing a fingernail or the tip of his tongue.

Shunning does not mean "to come after them with a baseball bat"

do you know any of the ultra-orthodox?

Yes which is why I referred to one sect rather than lumping everyone together. As for people leaving, there is a lot of pressure not to and a lot of time and effort put in to making it difficult.

sashh - the term "ultra-orthodox", as you should know, covers a wide range of sects, which is what makes me think you've very little idea. I chat happily to the ultra-orthodox on out street. No-one complains about what I wear, although I don't cover my hair. I'm definitely not shunned.

I suppose your child would look a right prat if they were the only ones in school who hadn't had it done.

That has to be the stupid excuse to have this done

And the rabbi would hit the roof.

again just fucking wow.

I always find it weird, as a North American, how the British media tend to focus on the less common orthodox when any story involving Judaism comes up. It's Passover? Photo of Satmar Jews. Anti-semitism? Photo of Lubavitchers. The majority of Jews are not orthodox, in fact a lot are agnostic/atheist. And yes, most orthodox are not going about shunning other Jews, nor peering at penises to guess the configuration. It is our tradition to circumcise, and men seem to get on with their lives just fine and still experience sexual pleasure (so is very different than the reasons behind female circumcision).

Boney - as I've said before, Jews don't generally do it because of peer pressure. They do it because it's a religious duty and it's the Jewish way of doing things, as Lizzie accurately points out. I was answering a specific question, which was what would happen if someone didn't do it.

sam I think you could say that Jews don't NOT do it because of peer pressure. You don't feel any peer pressure if you are planning to follow your peers anyway. I didn't feel any pressure to wear a wedding ring or have a baby because I was always going to do both of those things. If I'd decided not to have children I might have felt some peer pressure. Our rabbi was very sympathetic to my distress about circumcision but in the context of us having done it already.

I do know a secular Jewish family who haven't circumcised their son and I think there is a tiny but growing number who haven't. I'd assume 99% of those who don't are secular.

samG76

You may not notice the peer pressure as you appear to be one of the peers putting the pressure on.

annandale - point taken - in depends whom you consider your peers to be. No-one even suggested that we shouldn't do the brit - it's something that happens more on MN than in RL, I suppose. Our Rabbi was also sympathetic to someone who wanted it done quietly and without fanfare, and even someone who had it done in hospital. But as you say that is because they did actually do it.

Interesting replies.

It seems the reasons given for having a baby circumcised are more about the parents and the community rather than the child

Is there a reason it can't be done when the child is older and can give consent?

Because it would be more traumatic the older the boy is? No cultures wait until adulthood

It is much higher risk to have a circumcision as an adult, as he will get uncontrolled erection and the wound will open, leaving lots of scar tissue that can lead to serious problems. ds was circumcised at the age of five years old for medical reasons, after looking closely at all options available. The risk of complications is much higher if the operation is done on a teenager or young adult.

Yes, of course boys from communities where circumcision is the norm need to be circumcised in order to fit in. And yes, circumcision past babyhood is traumatic and painful.

Has it not occurred to you that circumcision might be just as traumatic for a baby, it's just that baby can't tell you how bad it was so it's actually the parents you are trying to protect from trauma.

I'm really amazed people can tell so easily apparently. I once asked one of my lovers whether he'd been circumcised, he was terribly offended that I didn't know. I couldn't tell you whether most of mine were or weren't.

Instasista

Maybe its because your argument isn't persuasive enough to make someone that can consent do it for non medical reasons.