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Timing of circumcision

317 replies

sunhat88 · 09/04/2017 09:10

Hi,

My baby boy is due soon and he will be circumcised. (Please no circumcision debate on this thread). Those of you who have had you baby boys circumcised... what is your opinion on the best age to have it done? Also what was your experience of their recovery?

Thank you Smile

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Flowersinyourhair · 13/04/2017 22:09

Sam- I have no issue at all with lacking empathy towards those who choose to mutilate their newborn babies. I have huge empathy for the infants who are subjected to pain in the name of "tradition".

BoneyBackJefferson · 13/04/2017 22:31

BoboChic
Yes, of course boys from communities where circumcision is the norm need to be circumcised in order to fit in.

I'm so hoping that this is sarcasm. because if it isn't it really is the biggest load of bull.

Crumbs1 · 13/04/2017 22:31

I think it's something that's happened through the centuries and no more harmful than ear piercings- I don't particularly like the idea of either but it's not the major trauma most describe.
Interestingly, would people change their minds if they knew circumcision of males significantly reduced the risk of cervical cancer in women? The incidence of cervical cancer is much lower in Jewish communities - so could be argued there was a medical benefit.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1816029/

BoneyBackJefferson · 13/04/2017 22:35

Crumbs1

you got anything that is a little less dated?

CMamaof4 · 13/04/2017 22:39

Have u had a circumcision then crumbs? Is that how you know its not major trauma?

AssassinatedBeauty · 13/04/2017 22:43

There's a much bigger risk for harm should something go wrong than with ear piercing though. Plus I wouldn't pierce the ears of a baby either, for the same reasons of consent.

Offyougo · 13/04/2017 22:44

Everyone talking about the child level of pain etc... had my son done, under local anaesthetic, from a doctor. Completely fine, worst bit was crying as wasn't used to lie down and couldn't move his legs for the 10 min procedure. No scissors, no cautherization. MN being hysterical as usual.

BoneyBackJefferson · 13/04/2017 22:46

Crumbs1

so could be argued there was a medical benefit.

Not to the child though. And again if this is such a persuasive argument then why not wait until the child can consent.

AssassinatedBeauty · 13/04/2017 22:50

Yeah, of course. Would you have done it anyway if you knew it would definitely be painful?

It's not at all "hysterical" to be unable to understand people happily getting perfectly functioning bits of their baby cut off because of tradition/religion/culture.

strawberrypenguin · 13/04/2017 22:52

Unless for medical reasons it shouldn't be done. I can't imagine handing my tiny baby boy (I have 2) over for a completely unneeded surgery. It was hard enough letting DS1 go for surgery he did need, never mind something he didn't. Why would you put your baby through pain you don't need to?

Crumbs1 · 13/04/2017 23:04

www.circinfo.net/cervical_cancer_in_female_partners_of_uncircumcised_men.html. Still 2002

2011 www.webmd.com/cancer/cervical-cancer/news/20110106/male-circumcision-cuts-womens-cervical-cancer-risk#1

As I said, it's not something I'd choose to have done to my child but I consider ear piercings to be equivalent. I think if it caused long term physical or psychological harm, an awful lot of men would be wanting the practice stopped.

The risks are greater as the child gets older due to increased vascularisation. I'm not sure you have to have experienced something to understand - I know full well that third degree burns are often not painful at all because of nerve damage- never actually experienced it though.

Tardigrade001 · 13/04/2017 23:08

Just wanted to point out that circumsised men have significantly decreased risk of hiv and other stds NOT because they live in areas with poor hygiene, but because the inside of the foreskin has a lot of a particular type of cells that makes it easier for infections to enter the body.

sticklebrix · 13/04/2017 23:12

annandale 'I couldn't tell you whether most of mine were or weren't.'

That truly amazes me!

www.circumcision.org/foreskin.htm

ButterflyFree · 13/04/2017 23:58

I believe it is medically beneficial to do - for a number of reasons as outlined by @Crumbs1 and @Tardigrade001 - and I also believe it is the kindest and most appropriate time to do it when my son is a small baby, when it is medically considered the lowest-risk time to do it.

Why would I delay a procedure which I (and my community and religion and many medical studies) deem to be medically beneficial until my son is old enough to give consent, when I KNOW FOR A FACT that he will suffer MORE pain and a much higher risk if he undergoes the procedure at an older age? As previous posters have stated, their babies suffered more discomfort and cried more when having their jabs than being circumcised - people calling it 'barbaric' are being wildly overdramatic.

It's probably far more traumatic to go through as an older boy or an adult male, so it's better to get it over and done with at a time when my son will have zero awareness or recollection of it happening. Actually I think it would be cruel for me NOT to do it when he's a newborn, knowing the social stigma my son would grow up with if he wasn't circumcised, and then subjecting him to the additional pain and risk of having it done later in life.

Flowersinyourhair · 14/04/2017 00:52

How do you know it hurts less? How can you measure the suffering of a baby too small to tell you?

lizzieoak · 14/04/2017 00:53

Quite surprised at that Annandale. Where I live, in my age group, most men are circumcised and to me it's pretty obvious. My female best friend calls uncut "turtle necks" if that visual helps.

ButterflyFree · 14/04/2017 01:16

@Flowersinyourhair Obviously from the amount of crying/distress.... Most people report that their babies demonstrated less distress (cried less, slept normally after, were quickly back to smiling etc) following circumcision than they did when having various vaccinations.

sashh · 14/04/2017 06:16

sashh - the term "ultra-orthodox", as you should know, covers a wide range of sects, which is what makes me think you've very little idea.

And as you should know to name the particular group could be identifying. What do you want me to say?

I don't want to identify the child and I don't want to lump all Jewish people together. In between those two ends of the spectrum "ultra-orthadox", although a clumsy term, covers the part of the spectrum I'm referring to.

Just wanted to point out that circumsised men have significantly decreased risk of hiv and other stds NOT because they live in areas with poor hygiene, but because the inside of the foreskin has a lot of a particular type of cells that makes it easier for infections to enter the body.

Decreased risk of contracting HIV but an increased risk of other STIs, the cells you are referring to are part of the immune system, normally they defend against STIs but HIV is different as it fools the body in to thinking it is not an infection.

Cervical cancer is mainly caused by HPV, if you are never exposed to the virus you will probably not get cervical cancer. Whether your partner is circumcised is not the major factor.

Why would I delay a procedure which I (and my community and religion and many medical studies) deem to be medically beneficial until my son is old enough to give consent, when I KNOW FOR A FACT that he will suffer MORE pain and a much higher risk if he undergoes the procedure at an older age?

Because at an older age he can consent. Because there are no health benefits unless you live in a country with high rates of HIV and low rates of condom use and because it is his body not yours.

annandale · 14/04/2017 07:19

Genitally mutilated women are apparently referred to as 'clean' Sad in the community - e.g. in a documentary I saw, boys said that their mothers told them to bring home a 'clean' girl, i.e. one that had been cut. Some of these arguments stray very close to that.

Instasista · 14/04/2017 08:08

*Yesterday 22:02 BoneyBackJefferson

Instasista

Maybe its because your argument isn't persuasive enough to make someone that can consent do it for non medical reasons.*

It's not my argument Hmm it's why circumsion happens so young. It's fairly obvious though and I can't believe everyone doesnt already know that. Lots of playing dumb on this thread

BertrandRussell · 14/04/2017 08:28

The bottom line is that it is wrong to perform body changing, non medically required surgery on someone unable to consent. People know this. That is why they grasp for spurious medical justification straws.There aren't any.

InterestedNewcomer · 14/04/2017 08:34

So the origins of circumcision isn't actually 100% known, and there is a lot of debate among scholars as to its purpose. This ranges from a rite of passage into adulthood, to reduce sexual pleasure, hygiene reasons, as a mark of humiliation, as a mark of wealth and many more. It's likely it was all of these to different people/cultures.

I do understand how it has cultural relevance, and how it can be difficult to break those social norms. However, throwing words like 'barbaric' and 'mutilation' to one side (as I dont think those will get us anywhere), you cannot deny that this is a big decision for any parent as whether you deem it culturally relevant or not, it is an un-necessary medical procedure. There is no denying that fact. And as with all medical procedures, it carries risk and pain.

To inflict that on someon who has no choice, and very little ability to voice their discomfort after the event, is rather questionable. It begs the question as to why you cannot allow your son to become educated on the practice and decide himself. Is it because you are afraid he will say no?

As to the religious relevance, while they may be culturally relevant now, the original reasoning for them has dissipated. Almost all of the original commandments given in the Old Testament (which is used in Judaism too as the Torah) were for the protection and welfare of the group, such as not eating shellfish and pork. This was simply because they were exceedingly hard to keep fresh and cook properly before refrigeration and thus the most likely to make the consumer ill. Similarly, the cleanliness issue is no longer a reason for circumcision.

There will always be horror stories surrounding procedures, just as there will always be a few lucky ones who walk out unscathed. But I do think that when it comes to a child, why take an unnecessary risk physically and psychologically when the child can make their own decisions later.

Bambambini · 14/04/2017 08:47

Many of you here who think it's horrible would circumcise your sons if you lived elsewhere (US etc) or if you were Jewish or muslim. Are you so sure you would go against the accepted norm?

Fortinately i live somewhere it's not the norm so my sons aren't circumcised. Hopefully it will become less popular in time. I imagine it could be difficult to be the one uncircumcised boy or to look different from your father and all your male family and friends. Where many women would think you are disgusting or odd for not being circumcised - i've seen american women say this.

Bambambini · 14/04/2017 08:54

" think if it caused long term physical or psychological harm, an awful lot of men would be wanting the practice stopped."

Thing is if they are all brainwashed together to see it as the norm, superior, cleaner, more aesthetic- no one is around to really ssy different. To go against the grain and not circumcise your son would be admitting it's wrong and possibly inferior, even mutilation - then they'd have to view themselves in a whole different way.

BertrandRussell · 14/04/2017 09:02

My father was circumcised. So are my brothers. Their sons are not. There is no huge issue of "looking different"- just a simple explanation when the topic came up.

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