Timing of circumcision

[sunhat88]

Hi,

My baby boy is due soon and he will be circumcised. (Please no circumcision debate on this thread). Those of you who have had you baby boys circumcised... what is your opinion on the best age to have it done? Also what was your experience of their recovery?

Thank you

Has the op returned??

Circumcision = maiming. Male mutilation and abuse of women and children apply in many patriarchal societies - but are now seen to be wrong and a violation of human rights. Children and women injured because men want them to be is wrong - that includes male genital mutilation, female genital mutilation, all forms of abuse and subjugation of those smaller weaker or more vulnerable

Does that clarify it for you!? Or are you being deliberately obtuse or deserve our compassion for the thorough brainwashing that makes subjugation okay in your eyes?

So calling someone "rude" and "not very capable of debate" isn't an insult?

Or saying that people in the uk (or whatever) don't have the analytical skills isn't a generalised insult?

You keep going on about "cultural" as if it should allow you the right to do things to others.

And just as a side note, there are many national medical boards that have said that circumcision shouldn't be done except for medical reasons. Do they not have the analytical skills for this either?

It doesn't make any sense, but it is at least clarified.

Btw I don't think circumcision is ok. I just recognise it's my own culture dictating that not my European superiority.

Goodness it's like colonisation all over again

Instasista
It doesn't make any sense, but it is at least clarified

and you post about others debating skills. :)

can you find a way to use godwins law as well?

A long way up thread, a few people asked why circumcision got started. One possible explanation I personally find plausible is that it is a way for powerful older men to make it less likely that younger men will impregnate a woman.

Addressing another point, I was circumcised as a baby and wish I hadn't been.

My MIL got her two sons done very early as apparently they feel no pain in the first few days after being born, or something. My DP is very sensitive (in a good way) during sex but he could be feeling even more.. PIL asked when we were getting our sons done, errr... not happening.
I wouldn't like it if I knew someone had cut off my labia or clit as a baby and stopped me feeling everything I was meant to.

To answer the question about timing - 18 years.

I don't know any men who have regretted not being circumcised as a child.

I have known 2 men who had (some - not severe to be fair) sexual problems/issues due to lack of foreskin. These men wish they hadnt been circumcised. I don't know any men with intact foreskin with sexual problems due to the foreskin.

I live somewhere it is not usual to be circumcised.

"can you find a way to use godwins law as well?"

Really? That would be fairly surprising 3 posts in. Now as high quality and informative as this debate is not, I suspect we've hit rock bottom 7 pages in gottalovemumsnet

Anybody who says it only hurts for a few seconds should consider the research on long term pain responses in circumcised Vs non-circumcised infants. There is a marked difference in pain response 6 months later. As I understand it, although I could not find the reference, there has also been longer term follow up in boys and adult men which shows similar outcomes. Inadequately managed pain during circumcision causes long term lowering of pain thresholds. There are other recent publications showing that topical local analgesia does not adequately control the associated pain. Injecting local anaesthetic is painful in itself.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9057731

It doesn't matter whether it hurts or not. It is non medically indicated surgery carried out on somebody unable to consent.

It is non medically indicated surgery carried out on somebody unable to consent.

Absolutely. The permanent removal of a healthy body part without consent. How this remains legal is beyond me.

I still don't understand why you can't wait until the child is old enough to make up their own mind. Surely someone deciding for themselves to get circumcised would be more meaningful than it being forced onto a baby.

I also don't get what the parents get out of it? Is it proof of how devout they are? and if so is it something they are doing for themselves or for the benefit of their religious leaders or community? Are boys who haven't been circumcised treated differently from boys who aren't - does being circumcised advantage the child in the religion in anyway. IYSWIM

I just cant see any good reason not to wait until the child can choose whether or not to do it themselves.

Bertrand I agree. If you look back, you will see I mention my brothers both being cut and the lifelong distress it has caused them. Circumcising babies gives me the absolute fucking rage.

My point was for the people upthread who have claimed it only hurts for a few seconds so it doesn't matter. There is even someone saying 'my baby cried for longer when he had his jabs'. Well, he might not have done if she hadn't permanently altered his neurophysiology.

I also don't get what the parents get out of it?

I have been told that people are shunned within the Jewish community if circumcision is not done. My next question to the person who told me this was would they shun anyone who didn't circumcise, they said 'no' I'm not sure I believe them though considering how strongly they supported the practice. Don't know how it's judged in Muslim communities.

Actually, I think talking about pain and mutilation is a red herring. It is obvious that it is not particularly painful if done pproperly and very few circumcised men feel mutilated. These points are difficult to maintain in the face of significant anecdotevto the contrary.

The arguments about bodily autonomy and non medically indicated body changing surgery without consent are completely irrefutable though.

I really dislike the argument that circumcised men are better lovers Bobochic, though perhaps you just mean that there is no reason for adult men to feel bad about being circumcised; however the outcome is to speak about a man's own body as though he exists for the pleasure of others. It is quite unpleasant to think that anyone might take a very small baby and have them put through an elective operation to make them better lovers for their future partners. I've been sitting outside that surgery and heard the scream - though my dh told me that ds screamed when he was tightly held, rather than when he was cut not sure I believe him It was not for his future sex life that I agreed to it. I've posted before that I regret it, but there's nothing I can do about it now except try to explain it to ds and not be too negative about it as I don't want him to start feeling like some kind of mistake. I'm still not going to tell him that some people find sex with circumcised men is better, as clearly that's not a universal experience from this thread.

I agree that much of our view of circumcision is a cultural response. I'm trying to think of a comparable practice the English do, the only thing I can think of is ear piercing although that's not seen as essential. I'm dead against that for babies/children as well though.

Mutilating babies is wrong. It is cruel and inhuman. I am sure that society will eventually turn on parents who forcibly choose to do this to innocent babies. I judge anyone who decides to cause unnecessary pain to a helpless baby.

Muhajaba
Because it is mutilation. It permanently disfigures a part of the body. There is no reason unless it's medical to do it. The foreskin is there for a reason there is no reason to arbitrarily remove it from a baby who cannot give consent.

My ex wanted our son circumcised and I refused. I've had several circumcised partners in the past and they were very rough during sex because they didn't find it easy to get anywhere otherwise. No way is my son being harmed with out his consent or left unable to have as best a sex life as he can

There definitely shouldn't be any justifiable reason for this procedure on a boy who can't give informed consent unless it's medical grounds

fakename we're Muslim and haven't done it for our 3 boys, and haven't been shunned for that - most people might presume we've done it as most in the community do but it doesn't tend to come up in conversation. Now and then my mil brings it up and asks when will we do it, which we keep putting her off as I don't really want to get into it with her, but I'm not comfortable with pressurising my kids into doing it. i have a friend with the same situation with her boy so perhaps there are more muslims around in the same situation.

You wouldn't be allowed to force your political views onto a baby. Why should religion be any different?