Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Multicultural families

Here's where to share your experience of raising a child or growing up in a multicultural family.

Original poster

Muslim DH, just had DS. I don't want to circumcise

197 replies

LittleMissRayofHope · 09/02/2015 18:48

I don't want to do it.
I don't see the need or point.
As far as I am concerned it is a completely unneeded surgical procedure that removes a part of my sons body without his consent.
DH does want it done though.

There is a likely split up on the near horizon as well and I'm worried that even if I refuse he could just do it during contact one time. He is on both cert and as its a private procedure he wouldn't need my consent would he?

OP posts:
keepitsimple0 · 13/02/2015 16:08

The looking like your Dad while growing up thing is cited by people who are pro-circumcision as a reason to perform the mutilation.

I love this argument. Does it ruin family pictures or something? "That's a wonderful family photo, except..."

keepitsimple0 · 13/02/2015 16:09

At the end of the day circumcision has benefits if done for the right reasons.

such as?

CultureSucksDownWords · 13/02/2015 16:10

Children aged 16 and 17 can consent to medical procedures themselves as they are deemed to have the capacity to do that. So as a parent you wouldn't be able to stop your 16 or 17 year old getting their ears pierced.

Under 16s can consent to medical procedures if they are deemed Gillick competent i.e. they have the mental capacity to understand the procedure and the implications. I would imagine that most 11 year olds upwards are capable of deciding for themselves if they want their ears pierced. Certainly I would think it very difficult to have their ears pierced without their consent.

Piercing the ears (or other body parts) of a baby or young child who definitely can't consent is still wrong IMO. I appreciate a fair number of parents think that culture/religion is a valid reason for doing this as well, but I don't agree that this is reasonable.

iniquity · 13/02/2015 16:17

Benefits include cultural religious and some health benefits thrown in as well.
The reason it is done to babies is that it is a much easier operation. My brother had it done as an adult for medical reasons and it was quite traumatic. It is better done when a baby.
It is about identity issues as well. This is important to dual heritage children.
Men do however put a lot of pressure on their partners to have it done which I don't agree with . in all honestly my husband would have had it done in his own country if I hadn't consented which would have been worse.
If done it is better done in the UK with proper medical supervision.

CultureSucksDownWords · 13/02/2015 16:22

What are the actual specific health benefits? Do they outweigh the risks and potential for pain?

They'd have to be pretty darn conclusive to warrant me consenting to this on behalf of my son.

keepitsimple0 · 13/02/2015 16:23

Benefits include cultural religious and some health benefits thrown in as well.

can you be a bit more specific? Because there are in fact down sides.

This is important to dual heritage children.

Really? I'd like to see the stats on that one. If it's important, they can decide to do it if THEY WANT. That's the point. it's their decision then.

CadmiumRed · 13/02/2015 16:24

I would hate to think that men (the thousands of them) who have had a circumcision because of medical need , or mothers of boys who have had a medically necessary circumcision are led to believe that they are 'mutilated'.

I am not in favour of circumcision of infants without their consent and without medical need but I hardly think circumcised men need to be made to feel that they should ring a bell and call 'un-whole, un-whole.' as they approach.

Hakluyt · 13/02/2015 16:27

"Men do however put a lot of pressure on their partners to have it done which I don't agree with . in all honestly my husband would have had it done in his own country if I hadn't consented which would have been worse."
So your husband is a bully?

CultureSucksDownWords · 13/02/2015 16:44

I wouldn't (and haven't) referred to circumcision as a mutilation, because it is also sometimes a medical necessity. The end result is also not a major change to the person's body.

I personally wouldn't care if I was in a relationship with a man that had been circumcised as a baby/child for whatever the reason. I wouldn't view it as a mutilation, I would view it as what it is - the effects of a small medical procedure. I would question the rationale of why it was done if it wasn't necessary though.

iniquity · 13/02/2015 17:48

My husband comes from a paternalistic culture and is the boss. I knew this before marrying him. This is what a lot of women who marry Arab men find. It is not easy being in a multicultural relationship. You have to mutually understand the cultural differences. Comprises have to be made. I allowed Ds to be circumcised in the UK because I believed the benefits outweighed the risks in my sons circumstance. I refused to have it done abroad so there was some compromise.
If noone makes compromises in a multicultural relationship it will fail which is also bad for the child.

TywysogesGymraeg · 13/02/2015 17:51

Did you know there's a lower incidence of cervical cancer amongst Jewish women, and one theory is because Jewish men are circumcised.

TywysogesGymraeg · 13/02/2015 17:51

Did you know there's a lower incidence of cervical cancer amongst Jewish women, and one theory is because Jewish men are circumcised.

Notrevealingmyidentity · 13/02/2015 17:53

Personally I don't believe in any relationship where one person is boss. To me that equals abusive.

Regardless of "culture"

BubbleGirl01 · 13/02/2015 18:03

DH is Muslim and when our DTSs were born he insisted they would HAVE to be circumcised. He quoted the cleanliness line Hmm which we have debunked in various long discussions over the years. DH did not even know that it reduced sexual sensation, he was a bit put out actually!

In his culture, they have it done between 6-8 years old and there is a party afterwards where the father is congratulated and the guests give the boy money Hmm.

They are now 13 and still have not been done Grin . Now will they be, as with DS3, unless they want it done themselves when they are old enough to give informed consent.

Hakluyt · 13/02/2015 18:17

"My husband comes from a paternalistic culture and is the boss."

Shock

The other- better founded- theory about the lower rate of cervical cancer among Jewish womn is that people committed to a faith tend to have fewer sexual partners and are therefore less at risk from cervical cancer. Nuns also have a very low rate of cervical cancer....

CultureSucksDownWords · 13/02/2015 18:30

Hmm. I can't deny that I am an opponent of paternalistic elements in any culture, and would not tolerate a relationship where one person is "the boss".

People make mistakes, and the OP made a mistake in thinking she would be ok with circumcision. Maybe they could compromise and wait till their DS is old enough to decide for himself?

CadmiumRed · 13/02/2015 18:39

How is compromise possible if one person is the boss?
Does that mean you can only compromise where the boss agrees/ allows it?
Can a man from such a culture compromise when he marries a woman from a culture that values equality and consensus?
Or is being the boss , expecting to be the boss incompatible with compromise?

I don't think the op can be expected to view her DH as boss.

HermioneWeasley · 13/02/2015 18:58

Mutilate - 1. to injure or disfigure by removing or irreparably damaging parts:

How does non medical circumcision not meet that definition?

Now I get that it makes people defensive - people don't want to admit that's what they've done to their kids, or what their parents did to them, but yes, I use that definition.

Roaring at the idea of "compromise" being where you carry it out.

Also, the posters defending it on "it's cultural" "it's important to him" grounds, would you defend FGM on the same grounds?

ArcheryAnnie · 13/02/2015 19:03

It is about identity issues as well. This is important to dual heritage children.

My DS is dual heritage - well, more than duel, and on a number of different axis. He has no idea whether his dad has had his foreskin removed, and it has never occurred to him to ask.

There are a lot of identity issues important to duel+ heritage children, and I suggest that this is only one of them if it is made into one of them.

Hakluyt · 13/02/2015 19:11

I am so incredibly sad that anyone would consider a "compromise" being their child having this unnecessary body changing surgery safely, instead of potentially unsafely......

iniquity · 13/02/2015 19:17

Maybe I should have said patriarchal. I joke that he is the boss but he normally gets His own way.
I've visited his country and I think I get a lot more say than women over there. We do make decisions together.
I haven't managed to westernise my husband and circumcision is important to him.
The benefits go beyond cervical cancer and include reduced rudik of other STDs such as hiv less utis and less chance of penile cancer.
I'm not saying it should be done for these reasons but western ideas are not always 100% right. It is so arrogant to thing western ideas and culture trump all others.

CultureSucksDownWords · 13/02/2015 19:30

You can't extrapolate from this one issue that any of us think that all "western" ideas/cultures trump anything non western.

I am quite happy to say that I am against all elements of patriarchy in any culture and I am against one person being dominant over another in a relationship irrespective of culture. Does that make me an arrogant western imperialist?

I am also not convinced of those supposed reductions in risks. Especially when there are very simple lifestyle choices that will reduce the risk of HIV/STDs etc much more than supposedly circumcision will.

ArcheryAnnie · 13/02/2015 19:32

Who here has said "western ideas and culture trump all others"? Some cultures cut, some don't, and it's you being rather sweepingly arrogant (and plain wrong), iniquity, if you are assuming all cultures which cut are not western and all cultures which don't are.

iniquity · 13/02/2015 19:49

I don't think all cultures that don't cut are western obviously they are not. But it seems in particular western culture that does not understand how important cultural or religious vales are.
I can understand why people don't circumcise
I just wanted to give another perspective as why some parents decide to circumcise. I was hoping that a multicultural forum would be more understanding of the issues women in multicultural relationships face.
Instead we just get accused of mutilating our children.

Hakluyt · 13/02/2015 19:56

"The benefits go beyond cervical cancer and include reduced rudik of other STDs such as hiv less utis and less chance of penile cancer."

Hang on. There is a slightly reduced risk of penile cancer in circumcised men- but it is generally considered too small to be statistically significant. And penile cance is extremely rare anyway.

STDs and HIV? Well, if you're relying on circumcision to protect your son from them then you are, sadly, completely deluded.

It is slightly more difficult to keep an uncircumcised penis clean- and that is the key to the much vaunted health benefits that people quote when "God told me to" doesn't seem to be convincing anyone. But chopping a bit of body off because it takes an extra minute to wash is pretty despicable, frankly.

Swipe left for the next trending thread