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Multicultural families

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Original poster

Muslim DH, just had DS. I don't want to circumcise

197 replies

LittleMissRayofHope · 09/02/2015 18:48

I don't want to do it.
I don't see the need or point.
As far as I am concerned it is a completely unneeded surgical procedure that removes a part of my sons body without his consent.
DH does want it done though.

There is a likely split up on the near horizon as well and I'm worried that even if I refuse he could just do it during contact one time. He is on both cert and as its a private procedure he wouldn't need my consent would he?

OP posts:
Showy · 10/02/2015 17:13

It is their baby and therefore both need to be in agreement before subjecting their baby to an irreversible procedure without its consent. The solutuion when two parents disagree is to wait until the child is old enough to decide for himself. Not for one parent to give in to her husband's demands when she has legitimate concerns.

TywysogesGymraeg · 10/02/2015 23:15

I suppose I'm biased because I'm married to someone who is circumcised for medical reasons, not religious, and he can't think what you're all bothered about.

Original poster
LittleMissRayofHope · 10/02/2015 23:19

It's not the circumcision per se that I'm now against. It's the act of completely unwarranted unfounded undo-able surgery to my tiny perfect son that he may not want.

It's cutting off a piece of my child and for what?
Circumcision in and of itself I'm not fussed about. But this is my helpless little baby who I'm supposed to love and protect.....

OP posts:
CultureSucksDownWords · 10/02/2015 23:52

Any operation for medical reasons is clearly not an issue. It's a completely different decision-making process to a religious/cultural and unnecessary circumcision.

It's great that your DH is not bothered by being circumcised. Not everyone would necessarily feel like that though, and why should a baby have to have a medical procedure (with any associated pain and risk) when there is no need and they can't consent to it?

limegoldfinewine · 11/02/2015 00:03

Legally, he doesn't need your consent though, right?

Hakluyt · 11/02/2015 00:05

"If it's important to him, then worth bartering for something that's important for you"

What, like a nice eternity ring or something? Shock That's one of the most awful things I've ever read on here - and there's been some competition!

CultureSucksDownWords · 11/02/2015 00:07

According to advice at work/ethics/circumcision.pdf this from the BMA he will need her consent.

CultureSucksDownWords · 11/02/2015 00:08

Sorry, link fail...

bma.org.uk/-/media/files/pdfs/practical advice at work/ethics/circumcision.pdf

HyperThread · 11/02/2015 00:29

This actually sounds very similar to getting a posterior tongue tie snipped so that the mother can more easily breastfeed the child. Most people encourage that. Is this really very different to that?

CultureSucksDownWords · 11/02/2015 00:34

No it's not similar. Snipping a tongue tie is a medically necessary procedure done to ensure a baby can feed and thrive. How is that the same as cutting off a perfectly functional part of a baby for no medical reason?

I don't think anyone who has their baby's tongue tie snipped would do it if it didn't need to be done.

HyperThread · 11/02/2015 00:37

Culture, there is no medical need to snip most posterior tongue ties. Most babies can still feed comfortably. Rather it is the mothers who struggle to breastfeed a baby with tongue tie. There is an alternative which is formula!

CultureSucksDownWords · 11/02/2015 00:48

Is that really true? That most babies with tongue tie can actually feed effectively without it being snipped? Isn't a tongue tie often investigated because the baby is feeding for a long time but not gaining weight well?

(I don't agree with you about formula being a preferable solution to tongue tie, but that's not something that I should get into here.)

None of this matters though as circumcision for non-medical reasons has no benefit to the baby or anyone else. Can you tell me why it's ok to cut off a baby's foreskin when there's no need to medically?

Italiangreyhound · 11/02/2015 01:00

I am so sorry OP you are in this position. I totally disagree with circumcision, except when needed for medical reasons.

I hope you will find a way to help your dp to see that not having circumcision performed on your son is the right move.

I agree you should avoid it and do all you can, and I feel getting your dp on board will be helpful.

If he is not really a practising Muslim it seems very sad that one area he should feel he wishes to pursue is this cruel and unnecessary procedure (IMVHO).

This site looks interesting.

www.circumstitions.com/Islam.html

I am not a Muslim (I am a Christian) and I cannot speak from experience. But I know that as a mum we really treasure our little one's bodies and I hope you will find a way for you and your dp to be on the same page without you having to compromise.

As others have said, if your son wishes to do this with his penis when he is older that is up to him, this is not a decision for either parent to make a child undergo something like this.

Italiangreyhound · 11/02/2015 01:03

And the fact you changed your mind has nothing to do with it.

CadmiumRed · 11/02/2015 04:07

He is a practicing Muslim, though: observing Ramadan, if the OP means he does the fast every day, is pretty committed, he eats halal, he doesn't drink.... And from his pov this is a procedure not to need to fuss about, as tywysoges' DH says.

Op you can either continue talking to your DH and see whether he is able to understand and respect your deep feelings of 'hands off ' , or else 'just say no'

I have a friend who consented to her DH's sudden cultural upsurge towards his Jewish roots (he is an atheist) and wish for the whole circumcision ceremony, and she has regretted it with such bitterness and guilt that she cries when talking of it years later and it has severely undermined their relationship. And her relationship with his cultural background.

jaffajiffy · 11/02/2015 04:24

I read advice somewhere that it's quite helpful for a boy to have the same as his father to help during growing up. We are English but my sister married a Canadian and it's common there to be circumcised routinely (or was... All bil's peers are circumcised). My nephew was born in the philippines and circumcised to match his dad. I think it's important for those discussions about bodies and sex, and just feeling 'not different' to dad is a huge consideration Regardless of any religious connection.

sleeponeday · 11/02/2015 04:27

You can apply for a Prohibited Steps order against his doing it, if a split is on the cards, so you can stop it ahead of time if that is important to you (it would be me, too). I'd post on legal for advice on how to do so without a solicitor, now legal aid is unavailable in most instances.

My kids both needed a tongue tie division which is supposedly painless. DS, no problem. DD had it done and was incredibly distressed by it - refused to suckle or latch for a day after, would start to cry in her sleep after flinching her mouth. She was a week old and very plainly affected. Babies are people from day one, and I wouldn't have this done unless medically necessary (as the tt division was).

DH is Jewish, by the way. But he completely agreed with me that it's basically a mutilation, albeit a relatively minor one with some health benefits. But why do that to a baby when it's not needful?

sleeponeday · 11/02/2015 04:32

My tt son couldn't feed with anything but a syringe. He dribbled all the milk from one side of his mouth using bottles until adequately cut at 4 months old. He was never able to breastfeed, but he had my milk and not formula. I expressed it. He still needed division because he had no way to latch on a bottle - and the colic and reflux wasn't fun for any of us, either.

TT is correlated to palate problems, jaw problems, breathing problems and sleep apnea. My DH has had major surgery on his nose to correct problems associated with an untreated tonguetie. His father has sleep apnea and snores like a train, and he also has a tt.

sleeponeday · 11/02/2015 04:42

Culture, there is no medical need to snip most posterior tongue ties. Most babies can still feed comfortably. Rather it is the mothers who struggle to breastfeed a baby with tongue tie. There is an alternative which is formula!

Many adults with untreated tt's can't French kiss, or give oral sex, btw. It's not just lollipops and ice creams they're unable to handle. Not sure formula sorts that problem, either.

sleeponeday · 11/02/2015 04:47

OP the case law I could find that looks applicable is [http://swarb.co.uk/in-re-j-a-minor-prohibited-steps-order-circumcision-ca-22-dec-1999/ here] Interestingly a barrister's website gives dispute over circumcision as an example of things he handles, so it can't be that unusual.

Good luck.

sleeponeday · 11/02/2015 04:47

Sorry, here.

Pooka · 11/02/2015 07:45

So if the dad has blue eyes and the son brown, the son should wear contacts? Or dye his hair if it doesn't match. My dh has a very large birth mark covering a large part of his chest. Should ds1 and ds2 have a tattoo?

That's a truly rubbish argument IMO. Children are not mini-mes.

Showy · 11/02/2015 09:40

The looking like your Dad while growing up thing is cited by people who are pro-circumcision as a reason to perform the mutilation. There is no good reason to circumcise outside of medical necessity. Honestly, think it through. Do I need to get ds's testicles stitched to his sac in a replica of his dad's torsion surgery? Perhaps slice into it to recreate the scarring from surgery dh needed at 17? It's unfounded claptrap. My ds's willy not looking like his dad's is a good lesson from day 1. Your penis is your own, it is perfect, it looks like no other penis and nor should you feel any pressure to have painful surgery to look like somebody else.

Showy · 11/02/2015 09:41

X-posts with pooka.

SamG76 · 11/02/2015 10:12

Hakluyt - I think fairly clear in the context of a possible divorce that I didn't mean a ring or cash, but some other aspect of her DS's upbringing - eg schooling, religious education, etc.

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