We earn nearly 5K a month but we’re always skint

[MoonlitMabel]

Me and my partner have been together 6 years and we have 6 kids between us. We both work and on paper we should be doing ok but honestly we seem to have no money left most months and I dont understand where its all going.

I earn about £1450 a month after tax and he usually brings home around £3200 but it depends on overtime. We get child benefit as well and I get a bit of maintenance for my older two but its not a massive amount. So I know we arent on a low income exactly, which is why its frustrating that we are always counting down to payday.

I have DS11 and DD8 from my previous relationship, he has two girls aged 13 and 10 from his previous relationship and we have a DS who is 2 and a DD who is 8 months. The older two live with me full time. His girls have only recently come to live with us full time because their mum moved away and they wanted to stay with their dad. Their mum isnt paying maintenance at the moment. I dont blame the girls for any of this and they are lovely, its just obviously a lot more expensive having two extra children here all the time.

We rent a 3 bed house and its quite full now but moving isnt an option at the moment. Rent is £850, council tax is about £180, then all the usual bills, phones, petrol, car insurance etc. He pays the rent and most of the bigger bills from his account and I tend to pay for the food shop, things the kids need and bits for the house. It sort of ended up that way rather than us sitting down and deciding it was fair.

The thing is he keeps saying I need to cut down on the food shop. Last night I spent £235 and he was genuinely shocked when he saw it, asking how on earth I had spent that much and saying I need to look at my spending. I know £235 sounds a lot but its for 8 people and I got nappies, washing stuff, toilet roll, packed lunch things, milk, fruit, meat etc. I wasnt buying loads of treats or anything particularly expensive. We were running low on quite a few things so it wasnt even just food.

I did get annoyed because he has been ordering more Airfix stuff recently. He builds the models and paints them and its his hobby, which I do understand, everyone needs something they enjoy. But he will order a kit for £35 then paints another time and tools and bits for another £20 or £30 and he doesnt seem to see it as much because its not all in one go. He says its his hobby and he doesnt go out drinking or spend money on nights out. Fair enough but I dont have money to just buy things for myself whenever I want. If I need clothes or something I usually leave it until the next month.

He says thats different because the food shop is something I can control and I need to plan better. He reckons I buy too much and we dont need half the things I get. I said if he wants to do the food shop and feed all of us for less then he can have a go because its easy to criticise when you arent the one trying to make meals out of whats left in the fridge. That probably didnt help the conversation.

He then said since his girls moved in everything costs more and I seem to have a problem with it. I honestly dont. They are his children and of course they should be able to live with their dad if thats what they want. But we didnt really sit down and work out how much more it would cost or change how we pay for things. We just carried on as before and now we are struggling even more.

He has debt repayments as well, credit cards and a loan from before, which come to around £500 a month. He says those are fixed payments and have to be paid so theres not much he can do about them. I agree they need paying but it means a lot of his wages are already spoken for before we have even bought food or put petrol in the car. His overtime isnt guaranteed either so some months he gets less than £3200.

I dont know if we are just spending too much or if this is what it costs to run a house with this many kids now. We dont have expensive holidays or go out much. The kids have clubs and school things to pay for, they grow out of clothes and shoes, the little ones need nappies and all that. Then theres always something else, a birthday or a school trip or something needs replacing.

We dont have a joint account and neither of us has a proper idea of what the other has left after bills. He thinks he pays most of the money out because the rent and bills come out of his account, and I feel like Im constantly spending mine on everyone and everything and never have anything left. We have never actually added everything up together which I know sounds stupid.

I dont want this to turn into me saying he shouldnt buy his hobby stuff or that his girls cost too much, because thats not what I mean. I just dont see how we can both be working and bringing that much in and still be skint all the time. Is £235 actually ridiculous for a weekly shop for this many people or do I need to look properly at what Im spending? And how do other people split everything when there are children from previous relationships as well?

Tinkering with the food shop is fiddling while Rome burns. The problem is not feeding the family, it is the man (isn't it always?) spending on frivolities that benefit no one but himself and adding costs by putting things on credit cards.

As someone else said, I am getting financial abuse vibes. Any man who is getting angry with his partner for buying nappies while buying toys for himself is not a good man.

This isn't about a bit of shopping or £30 here and there on hobbies. OP has four children that are nearly teens and babies of opposite sex. She actively chose to put her children in this overcrowded situation. She needs to (with her DH) take ownership of that and pull her head out of the sand. She needs to radically change her finances quickly so that she can ensure her children are properly housed. Telling her the children aren't the problem is a lie and risks her bringing more children into the mix.

I stopped reading at 6 kids!

Drives me CRAZY, all the smartarses AFTER THE EVENT telling posters that they shouldn't have so many kids. Now what is she supposed to do with them? Drop them off at a charity shop or something? Come on, oh wise ones, suggestions please..

My serious suggestion, @MoonlitMabel is to get that debt down, overpay it as much as possible, DH will have to forego his models until that's done, then you'll be £500 a month better off. And, yes, send him shopping, I'm sure you're doing your best, but food shopping IS appalling & you can only cut back on so much.

He says thats different because the food shop is something I can control and I need to plan better. He reckons I buy too much and we dont need half the things I get. I said if he wants to do the food shop and feed all of us for less then he can have a go because its easy to criticise when you arent the one trying to make meals out of whats left in the fridge. That probably didnt help the conversation.

and his hobby is something he CAN‘T control? Wow. What a load of crap. Unless he’s suggesting that he’s genuinely addicted…

no, this isn’t a serious suggestion. But if he genuinely couldn’t control his spending, that would sound like addiction to me. Something to fight against. Not something to enable by telling his family to spend less on essentials like food and nappies!!

Drives me CRAZY, all the smartarses AFTER THE EVENT telling posters that they shouldn't have so many kids. Now what is she supposed to do with them? Drop them off at a charity shop or something? Come on, oh wise ones, suggestions please..
Not have any more. Not to start having any with her next partner.

I can't believe some of the advice I've read on here. stop buying hand wash, wow Milton Freidman watch out.

Start off by declaring yourselves in a financial crisis (because you are). Make sure you and DH are BOTH on the same page, and set a time period. Say for example for the next year we are in financial crisis mode. In a year reassess.
Then start a spreadsheet of EVERY incoming/ outgoing (includingTOTAL debt). You need to know how big the debt is and how long it will take to pay off. Go down the list and remove waste.
Tell your DH he needs to get a part time job for the next year (or until the debt is paid off, unless the debt is massive). He needs to own that debt and for the crisis period, he needs to do extra. It's not business as usual during your crisis period. This has to be time bound, but it's a start.
Forget buying less hand-wash.

@MoonlitMabel

I agree with this post.

There is nothing wrong with your shop. You are clearly not a spendthrift.

The problem is that there is no visibility and accountability between the 2 of you.

It is likely one of the most painful exercises ever but you really have to sit down - both of you - and detail every penny and where it is going. He thinks he is paying more, you think you are scrimping - but once you put it down on a spreadsheet it neutralises all the thoughts feelings and it comes down to clear facts.

There are some great templates online.

The points about how much his debt is costing have already been mentioned.

You also needs to take turns doing the food shop. He really seems to have no clue how expensive food is at the moment. Yesterday one small bag of groceries cost me £40 - I actually asked them to re-check because it was so expensive compared to the relatively small number of items I had bought. He needs to have that same reality check.

Finally, once you start working on your spreadsheet, please make sure you leave yourself a bit of money for yourself to do things for yourself. He has his hobby - you should also have some sort of equivalent thing that makes you happy. He may have to cut down on his hobby (after looking at the spreadsheet together) but the point is that you should also have some sort of leisure money (no matter how little) for yourself.

Good luck.

Well firstly he needs to look to consolidate his debt. Its costing £1530 just mortgage council tax and his debt. Secondly I think he needs maintainence for his eldest 2.

I dont think £235 is a lot for food nappies loo roll and washing stuff for 8 people.

Is £235 actually ridiculous for a weekly shop for 2 adults and 6 children?

No

One adult eating healthily and sensibly from Tesco/Morrisons/Sains, without takeaways is £60-70 a week.

It is the children and not the occasional airfix model that is causing them to be short of money - an issue that is only going to increase as the children get older and the house gets even more overcrowded.

Yes, it's too late for the OP to do anything about it, but OP is not the only one reading these posts. There are far too many posts on MN where the OP says they are contemplating another child but can't really afford it, and other posters give pithy responses like "you never regret having another child" and "you'll find a way to make it work". This post illustrates the reality that if you have 6 children, life is expensive, and you should go into it with your eyes open.

Solutions are going to be about minor economies such as cutting out the hobby or buying soap(!); there isn't a "big fix".

I actually think the food shop is pretty good going, well done for getting it down to that.

Simple things you could do:

Ditch the fabric conditioner. It's bad for clothes and machines. Use a tablespoonful of white vinegar in the machine instead, I think I paid 69p for a decent bottle in Tesco last week.

Ditch the wipes. Make your own using old T-shirts or shirts. Then make a cup of strong chamomile tea, let it cool down and soak your homemade wipes in there. The cold tea is much kinder on baby skin than wipes. You can wash them in a normal wash and reuse them.

Bar soap is cheaper than shower gel (but I have to say, I prefer shower gel!)

Cloth nappies have an initial outlay but are cheaper overall than disposables. Is there a local nappy library that you could contact for a trial? See if any work for you. The good news is that you have missed out the early stage so might get away with one set. People do sell them on, so keep an eye on that. Every reusable nappy you use is one less to buy and put into landfill.

Do you have a slow cooker? Cheaper cuts of meat can go into it along with lots of veg to cook all day.

I am not a fan of pooling all money in one joint account. We have a joint account into which we both pay a fixed amount and all bills and household expenses come from that. It means we can each spend whatever is left how we want - DH has a private pilot's licence and that is an expensive hobby. As long as he pays into the joint account, it's up to him how he spends the rest.

Martin Lewis has just done something on credit card debts. Look on MSE and see what you can do. It might be a case of minimum payments on one card and throw anything left at the one with the highest interest rate until that is cleared, then moving to the next one. Balance transfers can be good, but you have to be really disciplined with them. The debt-free wannabe section on the MSE forum has some amazing people on there who help and support others.

Good luck with it all.

What you need to do is make a budget.

Dh and I get both wages paid into a joint account. Then we have various pots - shopping, family days (takeaways etc), cars, Christmas, holidays blah blah blah

Every single bill gets paid out of the joint account.

We than transfer an equal amount of spends to personal accounts and then whatevers left goes in the savings.

If you add in child benefit and maintenance all into the joint pot too as it's all family money, plus deduct his £500 bill out the main pot of he's putting all his wages in.

Do a spreadsheet and see how it looks.

Don't do reusable nappies - it's an outlay you can not really afford, it requires some getting used to, especially with an older baby you might need extra absorption layers which all adds up, existing clothes might not fit over cloth nappy bum, laundry costs will increase.

Much better to stick to Aldi nappies, and I say this as a massive cloth nappy fan.

Why do people have such a problem with people using fabric conditioner? It costs about £20 a year at most, so isn't going to be a noticeable saving in anyone's budget.

Yes, but unfair on children. They should have stopped at 4 on max 5

Depends on the adult and if you eat meat at every meal. Many of us eat healthily for far less.
But yes, it's not a huge amount compared to the debt.

obviously they can’t change it but it might help as a warning to others and it will help give some realisation as to why they are struggling

Six children. That’ll do it! Honestly, we’re well off and have had professional jobs since the 1990s. After our second child was born in 1998 we decided that was it; in order to have a comfortable life and not spend our lives whinging about being poor we’d stop. DH had the snip. It staggers me that anyone would expect an easy financial ride with that many children

100% agree.

I'm not convinced they are cheaper either.

Did cloth with both my kids, but is wasn't a coat saving exercise for me.

you need to sit down and work out all the outgoings for running the house then split it between the pair of you but you also need maintenance for his 2 girls as the food bill and accompaniments will be blooming expensive. his debt needs sorting. his daft spending on a hobby needs to stop. you are in a v precarious postion living in a rental with a man you are not married to who believes it is your responsiblity to manage his life admin. Sorry but he does not sound great.

Another one here who thinks the food shop reasonableness depends on a number of factors but overall isn't too bad.

We found that we made big inroads by vastly reducing our meat consumption and replacing the protein with dried beans and lentils.

Please claim Universal Credit OP. Do it for your children's sake.

Believe it or not @Bjorkdidit some of us can actually work that out too! There are numerous options- hence the question for the OP!
We don't need anyone stating the obvious.