One in six PIP claimants have no extra costs linked to their disability

[Allseeingallknowing]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/40693771/pip-claimants-disability-benefit/
So, can money be saved here?

Say you know nothing about addiction without saying you know nothing about addiction.
Have you ever met an addict that quit booze/drugs because they could not afford it? No... they go without elsewhere. And when there is nothing to go without, they turn to crime.

There is also nothing in the PIP descriptors about addiction.

Yes because making every business and bank in existence have a system for that won't cost anything at all.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. I think taxi vouchers that are transferable across companies would work perfectly. I am not being goady, I fully support benefits and think they need to be higher in fact. As many people have discussed on this thread, PIP barely touches the sides of their incremental costs due to disability. One way to increase PIP is to disincentivise untrue or exaggerated claims (and I know these are very much the minority). Benefits are going to be reformed one way or another. Either we take steps such as this, or it’s blanket cuts that are going to fuck up the lives of vulnerable people.

How do you know they spent the DLA on a 3D printer?
Most people getting DLA/PIP have it go into their main bank account. They don't have a separate account for it, and it is not ring fenced specifically for disability related costs.
You know someone who claims DLA, and they bought a 3D printer. That is what happened.

And when someone wants to give some petrol money to a neighbour or family member to take them somewhere instead of getting a taxi? Or when the only available taxi provider won’t take the vouchers or will only take them at certain times or charge an admin fee?

What about when they need forgo the taxi into town one week because they have an unexpected disability related expense but can’t afford that because all they have left is a taxi voucher?

In some areas, taxi ‘vouchers’ already exist, look at the subsidised taxicards in some areas, but it isn’t instead of PIP and it isn’t a system without problems.

@Octavia64 so you had to demonstrate you could get up and downstairs using crutches before discharged. Your words.
I knew the initial post was not true.

There is also nothing in the PIP descriptors about addiction.

Yes, but there should be. Addiction is a disability.

Alcoholics and drug addicts do get pip. And yes they meet the criteria. But it goes on alcohol and drugs, predictably.

One stair.

one.

i was supposed to be able to do the whole staircase but I couldn’t.

i did one stair.

Addiction isn’t mentioned in the activity descriptors because PIP isn’t about the specific disability, it is about the functional impairment.

Vouchers just seem really difficult and costly to administer because disability is very individual. You'd need each person to prove they met the criteria as they do now, then add an admin layer to apply for their specific costs, then the voucher system itself. You'd then need masses of suppliers to agree to accept those vouchers as people could legitimately need anything from shoes, to adapted cars, to train fairs, to chopped up food. The massive range of legitimate disability support then means the voucher itself would need to be limited to a specific service, otherwise you lose the point of the voucher as it can be spent in something else anyway.

That's before you get to issues like what if your disability is one that fluctuates so sometimes you have different needs. If this few weeks a taxi isnt the most supportive thing for your disability as you cant leave the house at all due to a MS flare up affectivlng your mobility, but getting food delivered is useful because you now cant cut things up as you lost your hand feeling (real life example) Do you now have to urgently apply for different voucher accepted by your local meals of wheels equivelent (which isnt free, someone comes in heats it up, cuts it up, and helps the person eat) or are you supposed to apply for both and guess how much of the year will be flare up v remission.

Its just not workable. Cash is fine. Its about people being independent. Let them decide how to spend the money in the most appropriate way at the time.

Sadly, yes. But what do you suggest otherwise?

The problem with this thread is the pervasive assumption that anyone who doesn't get PIP isn't disabled and doesn't have additional costs. Loads of people don't quite hit the threshold so have heaps of additional costs and no help whatsoever.

Once you stop looking it at a binary and realise this then it changes the debate.

I am shocked people think they deserve PIP to cover the cost of things like a few extra water bottles etc while I have to self fund an electric wheelchair!

The best way to cut the cost of PIP (and ESA) would be to do proper assessments, get the decisions right first time far more often and lose the costs of so many appeals.

The number of people who win their appeals despite sending no new evidence is staggering. Could you make the wrong decision as many times as DWP decision makers do and have them overturned by expensive independent appeals panels and keep your job? I seriously doubt it.

When my DD had her last appeal she waited 11 months. We went to a building with at least 15 rooms. Each of those rooms had a legal professional and a medical professional. Many also had a welfare rights professional. The cost of that set up must be phenomomal when replicated over the whole country.

I’m pretty sure people are listing all the incremental costs, not the ones that got them accepted for PIP?

I’m sure if one put “I need PIP to pay for extra petrol because my ADHD causes me to get lost more often than most people” on the application form, that wouldn’t be sufficient to get approved.

(Happy to be corrected though, as I’ve never been through a PIP assessment.)

Okay one stair. And got to the toilet. Even if you crawl there you have to haul yourself up. And filled up a flask with water which you can only do standing.

I know sometimes NHS try and discharge you too soon. I refused to be discharged and they allowed me to stay, because I couldn't have managed alone.

You say you wanted to go home. It would be impossible to organise carers at that notice anyway, so only other option was staying in hospital. Although most people do manage at home with help of friends and family.

That they don’t get cash to spend on alcohol and drugs?

But vouchers are 1000000% unworkable according to this thread, so they can only be given cash to spend on drugs and alcohol.

Do you think they would suddenly be cured of their addiction if they did not get money?

You do realise in that case the more likely option than a miracle cure is turning to criminality to fund the addiction.

again if people really wanted to help they would be putting this angst into fixing broken system so people can get timely support. Prevention is better than cure!

I was wheeled to the staircase, given a crutch and they demonstrated how to get down a stair.

one stair.

then they supported me (two ots) and moved my body while I did it.

then they asked me to get up one stair (not one staircase, one step) on my own. I didn’t quite manage it, they helped me up then sat me back in the wheelchair and back to my bed.

how is that making sure I can get around my home?

I’m really confused by what you have said because I was crawling in the hospital from my bay to the loo in my bay and I think you asked about hadn’t I been assessed to see if I could get to the loo?

that was the assessment and I didn’t do any of it totally independently (and it was a while before I was able to work out how to use crutches).

I hired a wheelchair from wheelfreedom after about a week at home and the house still has the scratches all over it from where I hit things

I genuinely don’t understand why you are saying I am lying. I didn’t have a care package. I wasn’t able to walk to the loo. I dunno what the OTs wrote down but it was a good number of months if not years before I was able to do stairs using crutches - once back at work if the lift broke I went down on my bum like a toddler,

my head of department found me doing it once (I usually had a colleague with me to try to clear a way for me) and my office got moved to the ground floor because she wasn’t happy that was a standard way of getting around for me.

I 100% agree. I don't get pip mobility. I do have an NHS wheelchair, walker and sticks and ot adaptations, all free. I have to pay for taxis as can't use public transport, buy incontinence pads and have more washing. Had to buy a mobility scooter. I probably spend more of my money on my disability related costs than some people who do get pip.

All this dichotomy of people getting pip assuming the rest of us are mobile and healthy.

The closed loop pumps have only very recently been offered to all patients, some families have been funding this themselves before, and there is still a waiting list for a lot of children. It’s not cheap. They also have to purchase hypo supplies on a regular basis, and may need to eat when out if bloods are unexpectedly low for a period of time. There is also skins barriers and adhesive removals for the pumps and sensors, which aren’t always provided by the NHS and are also not cheap. Phones etc which have to be recently new to be compatible with the sensors. They also often can’t find suitable childcare for holiday clubs etc, and so may need additional time off work or will be limited on the clubs / nurseries they can use. There is more expenditure than you think.

ok.

whatever.

i use a wheelchair pretty much full time now, and I can assure you that it is very possible to fill a flask while sitting down because I do it all the time.

@Octavia64 because if you crawl to the toilet or water tap you have to still get off and on the toilet and get up t9 the tap to fill your flask and back on the floor. Being able to do the getting up and down requires quite a bit of flexibility and strength.