Avoid care home fees by divorcing!

[champchomp]

I know this sounds extreme but I’m thinking ahead. DH is a bit older than me and is having some health problems. We have no mortgage and he has a good pension and savings. I’ve seen instances where a spouse has entered a care home and the other one has struggled to pay the fees and had to sell up and use all the savings. Hypothetically speaking would divorcing and splitting assets protect some of the money and property. I know anything could happen between now and if my husband needs care but it worries me and we have children we would like to help financially if need be. I’d always be there for DH no matter what and visa versa. But financially does it make sense to financially separate/divorce if care is needed for either of us?

You just need a lawyer not a divorce. Go and get some advice.

Yea yeah British colonialists used to say the same shit about their house boys.

Is that all you've got? You're a racist and should be ashamed.

No she doesn't have a diary or power of attorney in place, we are having to go through the system to get a deputyship which will take a year & cost around £4k in legal fees. My mum has never been ill until this episode started, a week before she was cleaning windows, cooking etc, I know that power of attorney should be done before it is needed but my mum always refused because she didn't believe in anyone other than herself having control of her money etc. I keep on asking about a Respect document but the hospital don't appear to have done one, I know our GP tried to get one done last year but my mum refused to discuss anything other than she wanted to die at home which is now impossible, the hospital tried to send her home in November, she lasted 36 hours before she had to go back because even with a care package & district nurses we couldn't manage her care.

From Google.

To protect a spouse from having to pay for the other's care home fees, couples should
change property ownership to "tenants in common" and use a "Life Interest Trust" (or Protective Property Trust) in their Wills. This structure ensures that upon the first death, their 50% share of the home is protected in trust, rather than transferring to the survivor, allowing the survivor to remain in the home while shielding that half from local authority assessment.
Key Protection Strategies

• Tenants in Common: Unlike "joint tenants," this ownership structure allows each partner to own a distinct 50% share, which can be protected by a will.
• Life Interest Trust (Will Trust): Upon the first death, the deceased’s share goes into a trust rather than to the surviving spouse. The survivor retains the right to live in the property for life, but the trust's share is not counted in a financial assessment if they move into care.
• Property Exemption: The home is not included in the financial assessment if a spouse still lives there.
• Deprivation of Assets: Be aware that deliberately gifting assets solely to avoid fees can be viewed as "deprivation of assets" by local authorities.
• Lasting Power of Attorney (LPA): Setting up an LPA for both financial and health matters ensures, if one partner loses mental capacity, their affairs are managed, preventing the need for costly Court of Protection involvement.

Important Considerations

• Assessment Rules: Only the resident's income and capital are used to pay for their care; a spouse's assets cannot be taken.
• Timing: These arrangements must be made while both partners have mental capacity.
• Expert Advice: Consulting a solicitor specializing in care law is crucial to ensuring the trust is set up correctly.

Of course hotel cost was flippant.

It doesn't cost that.

Nurses £1,500 a week for a residential place, you think they have one nurse each?! My FIL spent last year in nursing home. 1 nurse on shift with 28 residents, each paying over £1,700 a week.
No doctor, the doctor was the local GP that would occasionally make calls if needed and if he had time.

1 to 1 care was minimum. FIL, despite being able to walk, and strong as an ox physically when he went in was locked in his bed 24/7 and not taken to the toilet. Instead made to soil himself in nappies because it was easier for the care staff. He was checked on once every 3hrs, so if he soiled himself 5 mins after the last check, he'd sit in his own waste for 3 hours.

Not taken for a walk. Expressed 'surprise' every time we told them he could walk, which was several times a week because partner went every day to visit him after work and longer at weekends.
No 1 to 1 care with dinner, despite FIL having delirium, left him with the wrong food daily too, he required soft food.. No help drinking either.
Lost 7 stone, half his body weight during his stay. The food was utterly dire too.
Had finger and hand bruises on his arms, legs and face.
They took him off some medication that was keeping him alive, despite us asking them not to and to explain themselves. Never got a straight answer to anything and any complaints were ignored completely. Felt so powerless.

He smelled a bit, his skin was greasy, I'd wash his face for him, clean his eyes because they didn't. Hair not washed ever, in a year, no shower or bath in a year. We paid extra to have hair cut, hairdresser didn't show up, so the staff did the hair, shaved it all off in patches (he looked like a POW), while keeping the hairdresser fees.
They lost his hearing aids. They lost his glasses. They wouldn't contact the hospital to get new hearing aids made and we managed to find an old pair of glasses for him. They refused to take him to a very very important hospital apt, saying he was too frail (they couldn't be bothered), despite us begging.

Everything and I mean everything was done to make it easier for the care home staff and to keep it as cheap as possible. We paid over £1,700 a week and this was a 'good' care home according to reports.

We'd moved to FIL's house when coming up to a year, sorting things out, getting hospital beds sorted, getting social services on board, giving up a job etc etc, but he died just days before he was due home. I so wish we'd taken him home a long time ago, he deserved better but he'd had delirium before and he came out of it and we kept waiting to bring him back to ours like we did before for a few weeks, even though our house is tiny. I truly think had he received better care he'd have come out of it again and we only expected him to be in there a little while. We stupidly trusted the hospital advice and the care home.

Care homes make billions. Care staff are often on min wage or less. The UK treats the elderly (and childrens homes) as cash cows. This ISN'T what it costs, it's what they charge and they are charging way over the odds. They are often backed by financial companies and they are in it just for the money. It's pure greed.

You seem very triggered by this conversation. It is not possible for me to be racist in this scenario, but your lack of knowledge does align with the backwards attitudes towards race and prejudice that i’ve observed in the ME.

you need to know what racism is before you can accuse people of it.

Not if done while you aren't in a position to need care homes anytime soon. So, do it in your fifties not your 70s.

Racism as far as I'm concerned is making assumptions based on skin colour. You assumed that because my cleaner is a brown skinned lady she must be a 'slave' Because she has brown skin,in your eyes she must be a slave,a victim of exploitation without agency. Your assumptions are very,very wrong and I find them repulsive. I'm 'triggered' as you put it because I'm absolutely furious on her behalf that someone like you would look at her,see her skin colour and think she was a victim a mere 'slave' So yes,I'm fucking 'Triggered'

I'm just waiting for your 'Gotcha' BTW.

I would dispute the 1-2 years. During my DM’s nearly 8 years* in her care home. I saw got to know many residents who were there for 3 or 4.

*yes, she was very unusual - despite advancing dementia, her very robust physical health meant she went on to 97 - but in a most pitiful state for her last few years.

Fortunately my sister who had P of A, had had the foresight to take out an annuity, to cover the difference between her income and the CH fees, until she died. We had to provide her medical records etc. for the annuity provider to make a calculated bet as to how long she’d live.

As my sister later told me, we broke even at around the 4 year mark.

TBH, since she was 89 when she moved to the CH, I was expecting around 2 years, so thank goodness for my sister’s foresight.

So sorry you and your family had to deal with this. I know how heartbreaking it is. Try to hold on to the fact that it was the disease causing this and it wasn’t your lovely DF. All my sympathies go out to you

How is it entitled to want elderly or unwell people to be cared for with dignity regardless of how much money they’ve managed to save?

Ideally all social care would be funded by the state imo, and people could opt out and pay for private care if they chose. But it’s not like that.

Everyone I've known to have been in one seems to be 3 yrs plus and I've never known any LA cough up for the high fees or a posh place once the funds from a sale have ended. The residents are swiftly moved to a cheaper place. Where are these LA who keep folk in country manors lest there's any bad publicity?

If very wealthy with limitless funds yes I'd go for the high end place but from the sale of an average family home I'd go for the average place then the LA will take over when the pot is empty. Or, just protect your home in the first place with a trust.

I do agree with many of your points. I only recently learned (lucky me I suppose) how many care homes are used as a collateral to remortgage other properties and businesses. That can’t be right because then the livelihood and homes of the operators depend on ever increasing fees, regardless of quality of care.

Same with children’s social care and alternative education provision.

I work for adult social care doing financial assessments for people's care fees. I can confirm that the value of the property is disregarded if there is a spouse living there.

Where I am, we have very few council owned homes, so most people are in private homes, which all accept both local authority cases and private funders, all receiving the same level of care. In this area, only one home requires a top up as well, though I acknowledge that will vary by area.

My father who has dementia and lived alone went into a care home ( self funding) a few weeks ago We had struggled to keep him at home with carers for 2 years In the past few months he has begun wandering ,had numerous falls not recognising his own home and calling family at all hours day and night which was exhausting for us all Being self funding gave us the option of those carers for 2 years then the "luxury" of quickly getting dad somewhere safe when his risks became unmanageable. Social services care act assesment waiting list is at least 3 months in our area. I cannot imagine how we could have kept dad safe and ourselves sane while we were waiting for that 🙁

I think the pragmatic answer is that the only way for the state to fund care for the elderly is through increasing tax on the working population or taxing assets. Neither of those is popular, so it is easier to effectively tax assets by limiting care.

Why don’t you care for him at home? Care homes are ok for people who have no one able to look after them, but I wouldn’t choose one for my relatives while I’m fit and able to care for them myself.

Just started live in care for my DP. Cost ranges from £1500 to £2k a week, depending on level of care, through an agency.

This is abuse, not care.

Best thing is to put house into a trust for DC then it won't be touched for fees

or if unpaid family carers, set up private care companies especially for 1:1 care of elderly and then got paid for the unpaid work that they do 24/7 at minimum wage, that would come in at £106,872 per year - even with tax as a small business, you'd get certain tax relief on expenditure

Private equity firms and investors are extracting approximately £1.5bn annually from the UK care home sector in various forms of returns to shareholders
. Analysis reveals substantial profits, with over £256m in profits made by providers in just three English regions between 2021 and 2024, with more than one-third owned by private equity or tax haven-based firms.
Key Findings on Care Home Profits:

• High Profit Margins: Private equity-backed firms in the children's care sector have achieved profit margins averaging over 20%, generating hundreds of millions in profit annually.
• Dividend Payments: During the first year of the pandemic, 122 private care home companies paid out £120m in dividends to shareholders.
• Debt Loading: Private equity firms often load care home providers with debt, which can lead to instability in the sector.
• Tax Havens: Some firms shift profits to tax havens while declaring losses in the UK, as seen with some operators of UK care homes.
• Investment Activity: While investment peaked in 2021, private equity firms continue to find the sector profitable, with millions in interest payments going to these firms.

The involvement of private equity has raised significant concerns about the diversion of public funding away from care services and into the hands of investors.

and we wonder why council tax is rising by 5% each year and pot holes haven't been filled - its due to private equity funds ripping us off

Why do you think it should be free of charge to those who can afford it.

As for taxes, are you absolutely clueless about the state of the economy.

Please explain how DH and I could effectively provide 24/7 care for MIL in either her house that has no room for us, or our house that is too small for her and 50 miles away from all her friends (so they would not come to see her). And she is partially paralysed so we'd need both of us there to lift her.

And how we could afford to do this since at least one of us would have to give up our job.

Not to mention that MIL does not actually want either of us providing intimate care as she would find it too embarrassing.

If it was just a case of making her a cup of tea every so often and doing her shopping, she wouldn't need a care home.