Avoid care home fees by divorcing!

[champchomp]

I know this sounds extreme but I’m thinking ahead. DH is a bit older than me and is having some health problems. We have no mortgage and he has a good pension and savings. I’ve seen instances where a spouse has entered a care home and the other one has struggled to pay the fees and had to sell up and use all the savings. Hypothetically speaking would divorcing and splitting assets protect some of the money and property. I know anything could happen between now and if my husband needs care but it worries me and we have children we would like to help financially if need be. I’d always be there for DH no matter what and visa versa. But financially does it make sense to financially separate/divorce if care is needed for either of us?

So you own assets, but you want someone else to pay for care for you and your husband.

So the people who will be caring for you both are likely to be poorer than you, less likely to own their own home.

The young people paying for your care are also likely to be poorer than you with very little chance of owning their own home.

But you don't care as long as you get what you want.

Op, if you want to avoid care home fees don’t put him into one. Simples.
Ah, but you married an older man to enjoy “ for better” part and when it comes to “for worse” part you want to chuck him in a care home. And even that seems too expensive. Your greed masked by “I want to leave our hard earned money to the kids” is amazing.
Discard, sorry, I meant divorce poor old guy now and hope your kids haven’t taken after you and won’t feel that looking after you will be a totally unnecessary expense.
You remind me of a character from international folklore that cut the cat’s tail short because too much cold would enter the house while the cat came in through the door.

Inheritance tax not a worry for you then?

It isn’t the government paying for the care!! It’s all of us mugs who work and pay tax.

If your husband needs care, the cost should be borne by him/you!! So greedy, getting divorced so someone else (we!!) pay 😠

There is an analogy in economics called the 10 men and the $100 bill. It imagines ten men splitting the bill according to the way the tax system works, so the first four pay nothing, the fifth person pays $1, … the 9th pays $18 and the 10th man pays $59. Then one night there is a tax cut, and rather than split the cut equally (which would pay those paying nothing in), the owner splits the money so the fifth person pays nothing instead of $1, … the 9th person pays $14 instead of $18 and the 10th person pays $49 instead of $59. The nine people paying less than the 10th complain that it’s not fair he is saving so much more than they are; they ignore the fact he is footing nearly half the bill. So the next night, he doesn’t turn up at the bar.

Behind this is the issue of why there are so many people on no, low or middling salaries while some earn enough to be that 10th person, and I don’t know what the answer is to that one. But over penalising the very people who pay enough tax to fund care (and everything else) for those who can’t afford it seems risky.

But you don't get the same care, that's the one benefit of having savings/your own property in older age.

My mum is in advanced Alzheimer's and has suffered for 8 long years. After a month long hospital stay last year she was discharged with a NHS/government care package for 6 weeks. That lasted all of 2 weeks, the care was absolutely dreadful. We now have a team of fantastic privately paid for carers who come in every day (and on time and do all that is asked of them unlike the council carers) and alongside 2 day centre visits it is costing my parents just over £3k per month. Mum will eventually need to go into a care home and having savings and a house means that we can choose her care home carefully and match her needs, she will not simply be given a space where ever there is a vacancy. My DH's uncle does not pay for his care home fees and his care is dreadful. Another person I know with dementia ended up in a council paid for care home 50 mins drive away from family because that was the nearest with a vacancy for his needs.

Does it irked my elderly father that he and mum are having to pay so much of their own money out? You bet but it is far better they have money and choice than the other way around. Don't underestimate dementia, it is beyond wicked and you will want the best care available and if you have money to pay for care you will be so very glad you have.

The wrong kind of care is bloody miserable and very stressful....believe me.

Then wipe your own husband’s arse.

I like that analogy @chattychatchatty. I’m the 10th person and unfortunately, DH is also the 10th person and it’s massively pissing me off! The entitlement in this country is astounding.

For the first time in a long time we’ve just put emigration back on the table as a consideration for later this year. Thankfully we’ve maintained permanent resident visa status overseas so it isn’t difficult to reenact.

As long as you don’t mind exploiting low income people in the Far East that is. Although if you are earning well in the ME you clearly have very little concerns about the morality of your choices.

Indeed, and the irony is that she is considering divorcing the poor sod (so much for in sickness and health, he's not even looking at care yet!!), which would certainly land her in a much poorer place.

The community in Thailand sounds wonderful and goodness knows there is exploitation over here too. I’d say in general if you’re safe in a place with a pool and you’re not either going to fall into it and drown or pee in it because you don’t understand what it’s for, you aren’t in the kind of state where you’d need a care home anyway. I hope you don’t get thrown out of said community once you do reach that kind of state.

Yes, so many people have absolutely no idea what it’s like to care for someone with dementia. Quite apart from refusing to bath or change his clothes, my FiL would now and then fly into truly scary violent rages - over the tiniest thing, over which I usually had no control anyway.

The first time it happened I had to leave the house and take the terrified dog with me (she’d been hiding behind the sofa) and drove with shaking hands to the nearest shop , where I bought a packet of fags - having stopped smoking at least 18 months earlier.

I know dh didn’t really believe me when I told him - FiL had traditionally been fairly mild-mannered.
He believed me only when FiL repeated it while he was there. Dh is a big hefty bloke but even he said he wouldn’t have dared to approach him.

It was soon after that that we made the decision to find him a care home. I could not do it any longer.

Average length of stay in a care home is 1-2 years. People rarely survive longer than 2 years. Care homes know this and most private places will only accept you if you can pay 2 years. After that they usually keep you on the LA fees as it would be bad publicity to kick people out. It very rarely comes to that.

Private funded residents have to provide evidence that they can afford care for X months / years (duration varies depending on the provider)

In my part of the UK they don't get booted out if that money runs out. The provider (reluctantly, I expect) accepts the LA rate for that resident. But it rarely happens. I believe average stay in a care home is around 18 months and care homes typically ask for evidence you can fund your own care for 2 years

None of this is care, it’s just housekeeping (sure you already have a slave in the me to do that)
communal living is totally different a care home.

hospital care is far inferior in Thailand (I’m sure you’ll be paying for top Bangkok cancer care for 4 years but even wealthy people can’t afford that) but good luck. You won’t be able to come back for medial care anyway

Well erm obviously it would be cheaper to stay in a hotel. Hotels don’t wash and dress you, take you to the toilet and give you your medication.

Full board in a hotel 1,000 a week, residential care 1,200 a week private fees UK average from ONS data, nursing 1,500 a week. This is not expensive. This is what stuff costs.
What would you honestly think is a reasonable cost??

I can assure that you will want to choose your care home and the state will come after your estate for the fees. Maybe you don’t want to be responsible for your older husband but his finances will still come into play whether you’re together or not.

And the OPs solution is that other tax payers should pay

But your education, background, opportunities etc. all got you to the point of being the 10th person. In fact, no, don't get me started, it's not worth it. I'm also the 10th person, but I have no problem with paying my taxes. I do however get annoyed when pretty wealthy people try to wheedle out of care fees, inheritance tax etc. I benefit from living in the UK in a lot of ways, the UK has been kind to me from birth. If I'd been born in Cambodia I'm sure I'd pay less tax now, but that doesn't mean I wish that is what happened.

Actually tells me you have no idea how hard looking after an elderly relative can be. She might become disabled herself. Having grew up in an old people home mostly residents had family they were just too hard for the family to look after 24/7.

OP see a solicitor you can I think put a trust in his will which will protect your half of the property against home are fees so that you are not homeless. They cost you to get removed though.

Others over several pages may well have answered this, but I recall that one of the social worker's codes was 'they will target the spouse - and the house'. When a social worker got across the threshold of the family home, they would invariably encourage Dad to downsize to a smaller home. This was something they seemed trained to do, sort of 'Do you want fries with that?' They didn't press it unduly, but they always tried.

I couldn't figure out why but then it dawned on me, if the spouse is in the house, they can't touch it legally for care home fees. (And the same applies, I understand, to any dependent relative over 60 years old living in that house - maybe that's changed over the past few years.) But if they sell up and downsize, that frees up capital to be used on any care home fees on their spouse in a care home. I think it also frees up property for more prosperous families to move in, they probably pay more in council tax, it benefits the cash-strapped Council.

That's not to say there aren't sound reasons for an elderly parent to downsize tbf - one elderly person may find a large family home just too large and lonely, too unmanageable etc But that's not necessarily why they're suggesting it.

Care home fees in my area of south east would easily eat through £100,000 a year. Luckily my very elderly in-laws have the means to pay for home help twice a week and for a gardener. We are very fortunate in that there is nothing like dementia they are simply elderly and would much rather live in their own home for as long as possible.

On the other hand a friend’s mother went into a care home and over the 5/6 years the whole value of her house was eaten up by care home fees - £475,000! She did have dementia in her last years so that attracted extra care charges.

@champchomp , it is totally unethical to expect young working taxpayers, who will not have the advantages of home ownership, a working NHS, free/heavily subsidised education, state pension at 60/65 to pay for your DH's care fees.

I know a lot of older people think that they've 'worked all their lives' even if they've retired at 60. They say this without irony and I find it a pretty appalling attitude.

Firstly,my 'slave' as you disgustingly refer to her is a lady from Sri Lanka who's worked FOR HERSELF for the past 20 odd years. She comes into my home to do light housework twice a week for which she's paid the equivalent of 6GBP per hour. She also works for many other families on this basis from all over the world. She's very busy and very happy with how she runs her business. She's just bought herself a new car and she has another new car at her mansion house just outside of Colombo that sits on her tea plantation that employs many people in her village. The money she earns here has bought all of this for her. It also allows her to look after her elderly mother in Sri Lanka and help with medical bills for her family there. Did you think because she's a brown lady working in domestic services she is a 'slave'? Your racism is disgusting and you should be ashamed. Has it ever occured to you that what you might find low salary here translates to a quite hefty salary once it's converted into Rupees etc? To help you along a little when I worked for a domestic cleaning agency in Surrey I earned less per hour than my lady here earns now. As for health care in Thailand it appears you know as much about that as the service sector here. We wouldn't dream of coming back to the UK for medical care so no need for you to lose sleep over that.

Better to be earning well in the ME than scraping by in the ever increasing shitshow that is UK.