Avoid care home fees by divorcing!

[champchomp]

I know this sounds extreme but I’m thinking ahead. DH is a bit older than me and is having some health problems. We have no mortgage and he has a good pension and savings. I’ve seen instances where a spouse has entered a care home and the other one has struggled to pay the fees and had to sell up and use all the savings. Hypothetically speaking would divorcing and splitting assets protect some of the money and property. I know anything could happen between now and if my husband needs care but it worries me and we have children we would like to help financially if need be. I’d always be there for DH no matter what and visa versa. But financially does it make sense to financially separate/divorce if care is needed for either of us?

I'm glad to hear it. The point about choice remains though. I imagine they were placed there, perhaps because there was nowhere else. (Availability of places is another, different problem.)

Money gives you choice though. If you are LA funded, you get what you are given, and you have to cross your fingers that it is a nice one.
If you are paying yourself, and your care home is horrible, you can move to another one.

(My experience with MIL is that the mostly LA funded care home she was first moved to was horrible and she received substandard care, and the one she is now in is much nicer and the carers more attentive, although she still hates it as she would rather be at home).

How big is the age gap ? Surely a live in carer would be far cheaper

Interesting you say that, we have some really plush ones here in Bath but places getting the best reviews are certainly not the most plush/expensive ones- also Abbeyfield which operates more like social/ sheltered housing with some care homes too is definitely not at the higher end and yet usually gets very good reviews about actual care

We once looked at live in care for dh’s old aunt. It would have worked out even more than a reasonably nice care home, especially with all the expenses of running her flat on top.

Mind you she’d have needed help at night (going to the loo etc.) which would have meant more than one carer on shifts. They are entitled to an unbroken night’s sleep, as well as regular time and days off.

It often isn’t depending on what’s needed due to hours needed and often more than one person , plus cover needed when they are on ‘paid’ holidays etc - really depends if it can be a 8- 5 type role with partner taking over for some of it or it’s a continuous 24/7 kind of thing - if it is it actually can work out even more than care homes . It’s not just pay £28k a year salary and it’s all sorted kind of thing -

If you really want your DC to benefit financially from your assets you will have to ‘disperse’ to them way ahead of any actual or anticipated infirmity, at least 7 years but ideally as soon as practicable as otherwise Local authorities can come after them if they suspect deliberate deprivation of assets.
We are in the process of downsizing our home now (DC 20 and 16) and as soon as they are able to secure a mortgage will gift them a large amount.
We have also changed title deed in our home to 50/50 to help protect against inheritance tax. Savings mostly in Husband’s name slowly transferring to equal 50/50.
No guilt whatsoever, we both work and my H in particular has paid a fortune in tax over 30 years. If we need care and deem it too expensive in future we both intend to persue assisted dying, hopefully here but if not overseas.

It sure is. Those who’ve got lots always wanting more. The greed astonishes me and leaves a bad taste to be honest x

Whether you pay for care or the council you get the same care

@champchomp Yes and No

It's true that, within any particular care home, the self funding and LA funded residents receive the same level of care

But LA have a responsibility to minimise expense. So they place residents in the cheaper homes, or wherever they can secure a bed. Plenty of LA funded residents receive high quality care in these cheaper homes. But plenty don't

Paying your own care gives you more options to choose from. In a care home where more residents are self funding, there's more money available to spend on residents' care. They tend to have better food, nicer facilities, more activities etc. And you can choose the location eg choose a home close to family instead of the other side of the city

You’ve expressed that well
Basically the minority of LA funded residents in a mainly private care home are in a great position but the majority of LA funded residents are not in that position. They are in objectively worse and cheaper care homes. The minority of folk actually paying for a shit care home well that is a bizarre or a very self sacrificial decision.
You are paying for the ability to choose good care. You might get it anyway but there is no guarantee.

I don't think paying is an issue. It's paying the stupid prices. In this country we use our elderly as cash cows. Around £80k a year for a standard care home and level of care is poor in this country.

Would be cheaper to stay in a hotel.

You're right. I understand this, but she doesn't seem to, and she doesn't seem to want to pay for her husband's care.

That’s not true. The house is not factored into the financial assessment at all if a spouse or minor children live there. No caveats or possibly of putting charges on the property. It does not come into consideration at all. Ownership does not come into the equation in this case.

We paid £80k for a private care home. It was dire, his level of care was disgusting and this was classed as a good care home.

We were so appalled that we were in the process of bringing him back to his house, hospital beds etc and us moving in, but he sadly died just before.

The UK care industry is about making as much money as possible. It's not about care, it's a cash cow.

To be fair, you don’t get 24/7 nursing care in a hotel.

You're looking at this all wrong. The system does not exist to ensure that everything is fair and nice for the people who "paid in all their lives." You have money, you can afford it, you want care and an inheritance for your kids, sorry, you can't spend it twice.

The system has FAILSAFES to ensure no-one ends up WITHOUT care. It supplies a deficiency. Often for very hardworking people who just didn't earn much, btw, despite your charming implications.

You're not owed. Grow up.

Wholeheartedly agree. When looking for a place for DF, we looked at beautifully decorated places where the residents were just slumped in chairs in front of the TV with no staff in sight. The one we chose had quite shabby common areas, but the bedrooms were much better and individually decorated. The difference was the sitting room was full of staff sitting and chatting with residents and there was a lovely friendly atmosphere. This was borne out when he moved in. There were no set visiting times, I could drop in any time day or night, and most times he would be sat in the lounge with a cup of tea with a care assistant chatting to him. They nursed him until he passed away and in his last days the family were welcome to stay 24/7 and were fed and provided with food, camp beds and lots of sympathy.

Sometimes it’s not possible to look after people at home. Some illnesses are degenerative and there comes a point where full time care is in the persons’ best interests, not because there is no one else to look after them. Unless you have power of attorney for the person for whom you’re caring, this can often be taken out of your hands and is a professional decision.

I think OP is typical of those who think that the assets they have acquired over their lifetime shouldn’t be used to pay for their care, even when they no longer have any use for those assets. There are safeguards in place so in certain circumstances, other relatives resident in the home of the person going into care are protected - especially if they are vulnerable, so in the absence of a national insurance scheme which is directed towards a ring fenced fund for care fees, I don’t see how it’s unreasonable to ask people to pay for themselves if they’re able.

'Paying your own care gives you more options to choose from. In a care home where more residents are self funding, there's more money available to spend on residents' care. They tend to have better food, nicer facilities, more activities etc. And you can choose the location eg choose a home close to family instead of the other side of the city'

Only works until the funds run out. So say someone sells their £300k home to pay for fees and choose the nice one with the nice food <and premium prices to match> then as soon as the cash dries up and they soon do, then LA funding is required the resident will soon be booted out to a cheaper place.

Best thing is to put house into a trust for DC then it won't be touched for fees.

He may not need a care home, if he did get frail you could look after him at home, adapt the house to his needs and get people coming in to help. Or of course he could die suddenly without any deteriorating health at the end of his days. Or you could die first. Trying to plan for one particular outcome seems a bit pointless you will probably pick the wrong one and the way you are thinking of doing it may ruin the rest of his good years. Apart from probably being illegal and definitely rather conniving.

Putting the house in trust can also be seen as deprivation of assets.

After years earning well in the ME there's no way we're jumping on this merry go round. We're retiring to Thailand and taking our money with us. We have friends out there already who have the best quality of life imaginable with the best medical care if needed and a wonderful community of like minded people. The bungalows on the compound we're looking at are stunning with private swimming pools and all housework,laundry etc taken care of so it's pretty much as we've been living here. All of this costs far FAR less than a horrible 'care' homes in the UK. It's a no brainer.

But how will it be cheaper to have to maintain 2 homes for the next 30 years say. that doesn't make any sense. Most people don't get an inheritance and if they do its by doing the majority of elder care alone. if you want ensure your kids have money save money in accounts in their names for them. Even if you prevent having to pay your husbands care needs how will you stop having to pay your own. also if you have 2 homes and lie and live in one together you will be caught for council tax not living in you PPR

There are 168 hours in a week. At £1700 per week, that's just over £10 per hour to be housed, kept warm, fed, entertained and attended to. It's not as ridiculous as it seems when you look at it like that.

If you work out the cost per day, taking into account all food, snacks and drinks, someone on hand 24/7 to help with washing, dressing, eating and drinking if needed - and ‘toileting’ - as they like to call it, plus all laundry (often a lot) plus heating (typically warmer than in a normal home) plus any activities - and compare all that to the cost of bed and breakfast in say a good 3 star hotel - it might not seem so excessive.