Feel wretched- mum died and i had debt in her nsne

[Draladat]

Morning,

I lost mum last week. It’s still so raw.

I have 2 credit cards in my mums name. She consented to this a while ago as I was unable to get a decent rate. I am a second card holder but the accounts are in her name. I make the payments via DD so it didn’t cost mum anything.

mum didn’t leave an estate. The property she lived in will automatically pass to my dad as they write joint tenants (rule of survivorship) along with any money in their joint account.

it looks as though the credit card debts will be written off. I don’t know why but I feel wretched about this. I feel as though. Need to pay it back out of respect. My dad thinks I’m daft and that we should just accept that it’s being written off.

I feel so awful

@peppermintcrisp your username - as in the South African chocolate?

My Condolences OP

I agree with @NCForQuestions

if you can, keep saving all or a % of the money payment so that you have a slush fund. It’s almost your mum giving you a security blanket.

When your mum put it in her CC it ceased being your debt to the bank. You have no legal relationship with the debt, it was your DM’s.

£9k is less than peanuts to the bank, have you seen their profits?
It’ll make no difference to them if you pay it (bar costing them in admin) but all the difference to you if you have a rainy day fund.

Monies in joint accounts are literally jointly held, it’s not 50:50. In divorce a judge might allocate %, but in general both parties own all the funds.

https://www.birketts.co.uk/legal-update/joint-bank-accounts-who-owns-the-money/

So sorry for your loss.

I personally would put the 9k aside (either lump sum or gradually) for a year or two until all the probate stuff is sorted, just in case the lenders do come looking for it. I wouldn't offer to repay it until they ask, but I would want to be able to do so if required.

Either way I don't think you need to do anything immediately, just focus on yourself and your dad and take care.

Grief is a complicated thing. It is possible you’re transferring your grief about your mum onto something that’s easier to manage - the credit cards (even if it is causing you stress). Try to put them out of your mind. There is no need to turn banking into the moral maze. Banks certainly don’t.

In sorry for your loss.

If you're feeling that wretched about it you should pay it off. If you're not then accept it's going to be written off.

Are you looking for us to convince you that not paying it is the right thing to do?

Put it out of your mind OP. Look after yourself. You’ve been through the mill.

Maybe donate £9K to the local hospital/food bank/air ambulance/animal rescue/whatever when you eventually inherit from Dad, hopefully some years from now? Not that you should feel obliged though!

No, passes to survivor.

It’s why tenants in common is often preferred.

https://www.co-oplegalservices.co.uk/making-a-will/wills-and-tenants-in-common/#

Example in my family, man separated from wife, settled with partner, had kids, never married.

They had never divorced, he lived in ex-marital home as joint tenant. When he died 20 years later house went in full to wife.

Think of it as a final generous gift from your mum taking you out of debt.

Money in a joint account automatically transfers to the other account holder. It doesn't form part of the estate

@Draladat I'm so sorry you're having to go through this. My dad passed away 2 days ago and my heart goes out to you. This pain is something nobody should ever experience. I agree with @JamesPringle though, very wise words. Also @JamesPringle I want to thank you. I am noticing the guilt is hitting me like a truck and your words have been exactly what I needed in this moment. A very heartfelt sincere thank you to you. I will remember this. @Draladat as hard as it is, your dad is correct and your mum would not want you to get into any bother trying to scrape money together in this situation. Very big hugs, though I know hugs aren't as helpful as we'd wish them to be right now.

They can ask the estate for it back, but there is nothing in the estate so they legally have to write it off

OP, this is a great solution. Please don’t worry about the £9k, it is a drop in the ocean compared to other debts that are wiped due to a death. And it isn’t like anyone set this up is it?

Is there a chance you are mixing up your emotions (very understandably so) about the debt vs your mum, and you’d rather have both than none? Try to separate them out. Your mum has sadly passed away, and her debts have been cancelled by the bank exactly the same as everyone else’s would be. They have applied the law and their own regulations to this, you’ve not ‘got away with it’, you have had the same laws applied to this as everyone else.

So many uninformed people on here.

1. Property owned as joint tenants automatically passes to the other party and does NOT form part of the deceased person’s estate
2. Money in a joint account also automatically passes to the other party and also does NOT form part of the deceased person’s estate

Now can credit card companies go after the assets / money that has passed to a spouse (if there is no estate) via court? In theory the answer is yes but in practice they never do for this sum of money. OP owes 9k split over 2 cards so for arguments sake let’s just say 4.5k on each card; it will cost the CC companies more in admin / legal fees to recover than the debt is actually worth with no guarantee they’d even be successful (they very likely wouldn’t be successful because there are reasons why some joint assets don’t make up part of a person’s estate in the first place).

We are talking about a multibillion pound industry here, writing off debts like this is literally built into their model.

To the OP, I’m very sorry to hear about your mum.

H

@Draladat I am so sorry about your Mum.

I would absolutely not worry about this. Look at it as your last gift to you from your Mum. You have nothing to feel guilty about. Your Mum helped you out by letting you take out a couple of cards in her name, so she wouldn't have wanted you to feel guilty if she passed

As others have suggested, at the very least, give yourself at least 6 months to come to terms with your Mum passing, before you do anything. Don't make any further payments towards the debt, but put the money aside in case you are asked to repay the money and then see how you feel about things.

Firms have to write things off all the time when someone dies. If Your Mum had no assets at all to be taken into account as her 'estate', which it sounds like she doesn't, you shouldn't feel guilty. Their business model will take into account of 'losses' for any reason, including death.

Wait. See if the companies agree to write off the debt. Save the money you would have paid into a special account.

Everyone else who has a credit card pays a little more in interest when debts are written off so I can see why you'd feel morally you should pay but there in no legal obligation to do so.

IF the debts are written off consider what your mum would have liked - perhaps donate something to a food bank to help other people who are struggling..

I'm really sorry OP. Losing a parent is hard.

If the debt is written off, then you're free of a financial burden that you fully intended to repay. I would encourage you to look at this as a final helping hand from your lovely mum. I'm sure she wouldn't want you to feel guilt on top of grief. Instead, let the outcome be a way of her looking after you at a difficult time.

I'm sorry for your loss.

@Draladat I'm so so sorry about your lovely mum. It's very sad to read.

Please accept this as a last gift from your mum. Please x

9k to a bank is absolutely nothing- they are covered for these kind of circumstances. If it’s written off just leave it.

OP, I understand this. I felt guilty about some of the ways I benefitted financially from the loss of my own lovely mum and dad. They wouldn’t have wanted me to but I did. The guilt did eventually subside though, as part of the general progression of my grief.

You feel sad (on top of the sadness you already feel) because you have received a ‘benefit’ resulting from the fact your Mum has died, but you can’t feel glad about it because you’re grieving. I expect your mum would just be really glad that life has been made a little easier for you. 💐

Let it go and accept the money, I'd guarantee that's what your mum would want and you don't need the extra hardship at a time like this 💐 take it as a gift from the universe xx

I can't believe anyone would actually do this? 9k is nothing to cc companies.

If it was a relative or friend the lent the money then yes, absolutely find a way to pay it back.

But going out of your way to get yourself back into debt when it's been written off is bonkers.

I bet your mum would be delighted to be able to leave you such a gift, especially as she can't help you with the credit card rate any more. It's like she was actually able.to leave you a decent chunk of money to pay off your debt without it impacting any money staying with your dad. Do you not think she'd be doing a little cheer on your behalf? She obviously wanted to help you financially or she wouldbt have taken the card out.

I'm so sorry for your loss though, your mum was obviously very loved and you feel guilty to be unexpectedly benefiting from such a profound loss. But it's ok.

I agree with the posters saying the debt is an emotionally easier thing to concentrate on and that's why you want to deal with that.

Those companies have your mother access to that credit and that debt as a business decision. Her passing is, for them, part of the cost of doing business. It is not a moral failure that needs to be repaid.

They would NOT have forgiven the debt to your mum if YOU had passed either, for the same reasons.

You'd be nuts to pay it back.

Sorry for your loss. I had the opposite problem - my mum had £20k in debt scattered around and a terrible credit rating, so she asked me to take out a loan in my name for her then she'd pay the repayments. We did that. Then she died right before the first payment was due. 😱
£9k is small change for credit companies, so don't waste any more time thinking about this. Your mum gave you that money willingly.