How do people afford to live in London?

[galwithkids]

What it says in the title really..
We live in a 2 bed flat with our 2 DCs (4m 3m) in London zone 3. I love our area, I love London and I don’t want to move away. However I keep wondering if everyone around me is making more money that us to be able to live comfortably? Both me and DH work full time in demanding jobs and we bring home approx £9000 net. Our monthly outgoings are £7300. I have tried everything to bring this number down but I am not able to. This is just family basic living expenses, no extras, no commute or car costs, personal
phone or subscriptions not included. I have worked SO hard to bring myself to a point of earning that much, and yet every month I am left without any spare money, I never spend any money for myself, all my clothes are from Primark or H&M, the kids clothes and toys are all second hand, we don’t order take out, the weekends are usually free activities in the park or museums, I don’t save any because there isn’t any left. I feel like I have worked so hard for so long to bring myself to a decent salary level and yet I am not living the life that should come with it. I don’t want extravagant expenses, I don’t mind shopping at Primark. But I would like to have some
savings for the kids’ future, and I have nothing because money is never enough. What am I doing wrong?

I don’t see a problem with temporarily buying cheaper clothes and toys.
I do see a problem having two small kids and both parents working 12 hour days. You are stressed despite buying all the help you can. Your kids only pass you by 5 days out of 7. You are so overly worried about your nanny finding a new job, but it is you who should provide stability to your children.

Reduce your job by one day a week and see the ROI in reduced stress and the value in spending 1-1 time with your younger one. Have your high up boss husband to unapologetically say he’ll WFH on Fridays. These are examples, finding your own way to work life balance isn’t as easy as throwing money at it.

It's your choice but it's just FOMO. More money, in my opinion, should be used to give you more time. My husband was dragged out of London kicking and screaming. Now he hates visiting and he is a born and bred londoner. Really, it's pretty great on the other side. I'm sure with your equity you could live mortgage free and have a much more fulfilling and less exhausting life with loads more disposal income. We used to struggle to afford holidays. Now we go abroad twice a year, five star, skiing etc. Honestly, London isn't the centre of the universe.

I think you both need to find new jobs
I can't believe that in 2024 you both can't find a job that offers wfh at least one day a week or at very least one that allows you both to either go in later or leave early one day a week so you can take your children to school just once?
What industries do you work in?
The UK CEO of the company I work for (huge bank) works from home a lot and does her job perfectly well and is known to join a meeting straight from the school run
I know partners in huge law firms that work from home a couple of times a week at least
My husband is currently job searching. Doesn't earn as much as you two but decent job, well qualified and literally every single job offers some wfh
And you are paying to live in London yet each spending best part of an hour travelling? Seems madness
I saw your joint salary and though wow that's really good but since I've read on you're in a pretty crap position if I'm being honest. We've probably got about the same left over, a lovely house (not in London but in a lovely village) a much easier sounding life, jobs we both like and pay well but don't have to sell our souls for and four children who we get to see lots of
Your added problem is a husband who refuses to clean and a flat that you seem desperate to hang onto as an investment but that you're going to grow out of very quickly.
Pretty much all property is an investment and if your current flat is so great then you'll have already made money on it. And I'd be nervous about banking on a London flat being an investment in this day and age. Maybe 5 to 10 years ago yes but not now

Could you find a cheaper cleaner? We live in a 2 bedroom flat in London and pay our cleaner £28 for 2 hours once a week. We also work FT and have two kids in nursery (although we rent and it’s closer to £3000 unfortunately). If there’s extra cleaning during the week perhaps the nanny could do some hoovering etc?

@galwithkids you still haven't answered why you are paying for nursery if your child is 3 - it's FREE at that age for 15 hours.
(Unless he has literally just turned 3. The free hours start the school term after the 3rd birthday so if he has just had his birthday he will be free after Easter).

@galwithkids thank you for clarifying about the nursery thing but I think you need to accept this is a choice. It’s lovely that your baby can have an “enriched” life but it’s a luxury expense you are making to have two forms of simultaneous childcare. If you really wanted to have more spare cash you would cut this out as well as the excessive number of hours your cleaner is in your home.

@Needmorelego need when you earn more you don't get so many free hours and OP explained it is just a small reduction as they need nursery from early morning before free hours start.

100% !!

5 hours per week cleaner for a 2 bedroom flat, that's hilarious

@Cottagecheeseisnotcheese but they have the nanny. He doesn't need nursery and the nanny. The nanny can just take him to stay and play or something. I mean that's why they pay her 🤔

So essentially "

Op- "woe is me, why am I so poor?"

Everyone- "heres a list of easy ways to free up money "

Op "but I don't want to stop paying for any of those wildly extravagant things!"

That's fine op. But nor do you need them. They are choices and it's somewhat offensive and childish to pretend otherwise (and I say that as someone with a similar household income).

It's starting to feel like a stealth boast or even a windup tbh

Agree with this too!

Is there no flex in either of your jobs at all ?What industries do you work in?
You need to negotiate better hours/terms and conditions. The inflexibility and both commuting an hour each way is wasting so much time that you could be spending with your kids

The thing screwing you is childcare.

You could consider full time nursery for your son and nanny From 3-7?

Childcare costs really do suck. I remember when I returned to work and literally had £50 left over each month but went back anyway to save my career and get a bit of a break!

You could also hire an au pair and pay for a house share room nearby and that would be much cheaper. I think they cost about £150pw

Agreed.Dh and I are both in stressful well paid jobs and are both able to juggle some school runs each week and work from home at least a day a week. All my friends are in similar type jobs and I don't know anyone who doesn't have some flexibility now. Not judging op I am just surprised neither her nor her DH have that option

Where did you move to?

Thanks for that and you are right about the job situation. I will actively look into it

His nursery only offers a discount for the funding, not totally free. They don’t participate in the government scheme

@galwithkids put him in a nursery class that's part of a state primary school. They can't charge you for that. If there's a place obviously - but many London primary schools are currently undersubscribed in the younger age group so might be able to get a place.
Although when was he 3? Would he be in the first year of EYFS (so turned 3 before September 1st last year) or would that be next academic year he officially starts?
It just seems daft to be paying twice (nanny plus nursery). Nursery before EYFS is childcare not education - you are paying for childcare by having a nanny.
School nursery class is free. It's part of the school system.

Your husband can’t be that senior if he has no flexibility.

A market town in mid wales but an easy commute to Bristol and Cardiff. Other friends did Frome, Bruton, Battle and Cardiff, all with similar feelings of ' why the fuck didn't we do this sooner'.

Agreed I always thought one of the perks of being senior was the increased flexibility.

(Although I have to say I do allow all my team the same flexibility I allow myself - they can start late /finish early/ take a break in the day for the hairdresser or vet trip etc )

You are very lucky you can do that. He is in tech (hardware development) so he needs to be at the lab. Also this isn’t true about the more senior the more flexibility. I am in retail (head office) and almost all companies I have spoken to require leadership to be in 4-5 days per week, it’s a control thing. I hate it but it is the norm unfortunately

Your childcare costs are extortionate. Your nanny earns more than most people who work full time.

You are also paying a lot for your cleaner. I'm sure she's amazing but 5 hrs/wk is a lot of outlay.

You're essentially outsourcing costs you could avoid if either of you worked less

I guess in two years you're going to be better off.

How is your council tax so cheap? Mine is suburbs nowhere near London & it's £250/month.

So you can either reduce your income by one of you going part time or you accept it. Also could you not move further out? Aren't lots of people wfh nowadays?

I think hanging on to London living when one of you doesn't even work in London is absolute madness. Also nothing would make my vagina shrivel up and die faster than a husband who refuses to clean or contribute to running of the house.

I dont think a cleaner is an insane luxury, maybe the amount of hours she does is and you could see if there's scope to reduce hours

The childcare does feel mad because essentially you're paying for two providers at the same time even though I get that you need the nanny as back up in case of sickness etc but unless your children are getting poorly pretty often it is a bit ridiculous. Childminders are great, maybe try a preschool with childminder wrap around care or sack off the nursery and insist nanny goes to groups/library/park in the mornings. Shouldn't they be doing that anyway..?

I'd really push for flexi working - seniority should come with more freedom. Like I mentioned, my husband works from home the majority of the time and it made such a huge difference to his mental health, his relationships with me and our children etc.

I think a lot of posters are shocked that the money you earn seems to cost you - time, energy, your children. That's not a dig at working parents but an observation on how much you're giving.

I guess you just have to accept it’s London isn’t it? We earn way less than you but we have a 5 bedroom detached house with a £760 mortgage. We also have no childcare. I am sure you know where your money is going.

To the ones saying that I am ridiculous and unrealistic, I want to say again that I worked VERY hard for almost 15 years to get to where I am at work. I had to endure endless hours of very toxic bosses, harassment, discrimination, working late and weekends, missing out on family weddings, christenings, funerals.. Missing out on being on my father’s deathbed. Yes I CHOSE to work and i CHOSE to live this life in central London because I love the city and I don’t want to live anywhere else. So my issue is why even with this kind of disposable income we are priced out of London? I assume most people who live in London with young children have similar arrangements for hired help? My frustration is that I have worked so hard for so long and I feel like I have nothing to show for it with life being so expensive. And I also think that it’s unfair to not be able to live comfortably in London any more.
Some of you have given me great advice and encouragement. I hope to persevere for another couple years and reconsider the hired help once the children are older and easier to manage.