How do people afford to live in London?

[galwithkids]

What it says in the title really..
We live in a 2 bed flat with our 2 DCs (4m 3m) in London zone 3. I love our area, I love London and I don’t want to move away. However I keep wondering if everyone around me is making more money that us to be able to live comfortably? Both me and DH work full time in demanding jobs and we bring home approx £9000 net. Our monthly outgoings are £7300. I have tried everything to bring this number down but I am not able to. This is just family basic living expenses, no extras, no commute or car costs, personal
phone or subscriptions not included. I have worked SO hard to bring myself to a point of earning that much, and yet every month I am left without any spare money, I never spend any money for myself, all my clothes are from Primark or H&M, the kids clothes and toys are all second hand, we don’t order take out, the weekends are usually free activities in the park or museums, I don’t save any because there isn’t any left. I feel like I have worked so hard for so long to bring myself to a decent salary level and yet I am not living the life that should come with it. I don’t want extravagant expenses, I don’t mind shopping at Primark. But I would like to have some
savings for the kids’ future, and I have nothing because money is never enough. What am I doing wrong?

Are you not going to answer the questions about your long commute and inflexible working arrangements with no WFH?

We left London. Took a pay cut. I quit work and stayed at home with my toddler for a couple of years. Mortgage was massively reduced for a large house instead of a 2 bed flat. No need for childcare. Local school fabulous so no need for school fees. We were much better off financially and a massive improvement in lifestyle. London living really wasn't worth it for us. We ended up feeling really sorry for all our high earning friends, living in pokey flats in dodgy areas working 7-7 to earn 150k a year which was mostly spent on childcare.

Or her absolute refusal to do any household chores that the vast majority of full time workers manage to do whilst also having children.

You know where your money is going OP and you know how to solve it. You just won't!

We dont pay her to do nothing. I “reserve” her because I need her ad hoc on kids illnesses or out of term. I get what people are saying that her hours will be reduced once kids are in school, but not really because I don’t want her to find another job as i need her for pick ups and out of term. She needs a decent salary to live in London too. I know I could get the kids to after school clubs when they are older but these and at 4.30 and we get home at 7. If i only pay her for these hours she will leave to find a better paying job and I will have to find someone else, build the trust etc etc not that easy

Not every area of London is that cheap. Our council tax is £240 a month for a 3-bed. Plus the % of children requiring free school meals is v. high across all London boroughs, so making it free for all is until 11 is probably more cost effective. Tower Hamlets, for instance, has the highest rate of child poverty of anywhere in the country.

I have an hours commute, we live in North London and I work in the South. DH works outside of London and drives there, takes him 50 mins. I work in an industry that unfortunately they are demanding people back to the office as a way to control people. I hate this but it is like that in most places in my industry. DH is very high up in his company and has to be there every day. I can take the occasional WFH to take a kid to a doctor appointment, but not every week

You just described my life but i don’t want to leave London. Or at least I don’t want to sell our flat, I think it’s an investment for the future

I have been interviewing since the summer for a remote/hybrid job closer to home but all have a massive pay cut.

I m sorry but are you saying you will still be paying the nanny the same (so she won't leave and you can have her ad hoc should there be a need) even when the youngest goes to school?
Then the solution is to earn more money 👀

I live in London with husband and teenage daughter on less than half your income. Admittedly we have no childcare costs but you could cut these down so much if you actually wanted to.
And our cleaner does 2 hours a week for our 4 storey house. How on earth can your flat get so dirty?
Commutes sound crap, move to south London?

I completely get it-my entire salary went on childcare post maternity leave so effectively DH was subsidising me to return to work, a similar setup to you with FT nanny then private afternoon nursery, term time only with 16/18wks holiday. But the nanny was absolutely worth it as I have twins, she was able to be at home if one was ill, I didn't/couldn't miss work, Ad hoc babysitting too. You can trim the cleaner back to 4hrs fortnightly, outsize ironing of shirts/bedlinen, be much stricter on food shopping bill. There will be holiday childcare costs when both kids are at school but nothing touching the amount you're paying now. You will however want to upsize at some point as you'll outgrow a 2bed flat within nxt few yrs, or will you move for secondary school?

I get it’s a wrench when a nanny that works for your family leaves. I really do.

when our last nanny left I cried.

But I promise you the nanny you currently have isn’t the only one that can cover what you need.

maybe for now it makes sense, with very young kids if they are settled and she’s good with them when ill etc.

but in the next few years that is the way to make savings.

kids get ill less as they get older. Some after school Nanny’s do offer flexible extras - ours does after school
during term time, school holidays and can often help out when the kids are ill.

these days employers are used to wfh when a child is ill, too.

im 10 years into having a nanny and in that time I’ve found 5 great people.

and meantime remind yourself you are choosing to pay for a top dollar nursery and to have a nanny on standby.

they are luxuries- good for your children

Thank you. I haven’t thought about secondary schools yet

I'm sorry but I bet you shop at the likes of Waitrose 😂 and drop the cleaner, like pps have said... That is an unnecessary luxury that I would LOVE to be able to afford (I have A 2 year old and a 1 year old) I manage to keep the house clean and tidy (I am tired but that's being a mum isn't it) I have no sympathy. If you want more money don't live in London

Is your flat really an investment if you can’t afford to rent it out as well as buy another place? Is it really likely to go up much in the near future given mortgage rates? I would reevaluate this perception of yours and see if you can move somewhere mor affordable.

We could afford to rent it out but it’s not worth it, the taxes are high + the upkeep costs are high

But your childcare costs will drop hugely once youngest is at school
Childcare £3850

So it is. Short term problem.

Unless you planning private school

Not planning private school but I struggle to see how the childcare costs will drop when I need after school care plus out of term care

I manage fine, though I have a council house and my rent is very cheap

You use breakfast clubs after school clubs and holiday clubs
And maybe full time nanny over the summer
Some students or teachers will do this
Your childcare costs per annum will drop over time
And yes keep your cleaner keep your sanity
So keep going and adjust as kids grow.
By the time they sevonndary it is a different story

@galwithkids Childcare costs at school can be much less. We use a student as an after school nanny for a couple of hours; it's flexible so she does pick up extra shifts in the holidays. Our school has breakfast and afterschool clubs which are pretty reasonable and a good wrap around care provision. We will use holiday clubs at school - good value for money and all DS' friends are going. You don't need to have a FT nanny.

You have 1700 a month spare. Most people can only dream of that. This must be a wind up.

It seems ridiculous to be paying for the little one to go to nursery when you have a nanny sat at home all morning twiddling her thumbs. At the very least I'd be asking her to keep on top of the cleaning in the mornings (a two bed flat can't be that hard to keep clean) and drop the cleaner.

She isn’t at home when she isnt working