How much do you think doctors actually get paid?

[Hayley37888]

I find it ridiculous for their level of skills. No wonder they’re leaving for Australia / New Zealand

You cannot assume that a doctor will become a consultant after 8-10 years. Many take maternity leave, don't pass their exams first time, get held back for sickness absences/bereavement and don't get into their desired profession the first time. I don't know anyone who has reached consultant level after 8-10 years.

@pattihews Also hardly any NHS doctors work privately. It is very difficult to work 50-60hours a week (many hours outside their contractual hours) and uphold a private portfolio.

True, especially for women who have babies and drop hours after maternity leave. And my dh was 37 when he got his Consultant post (so took 13 years), because he came here as a junior Dr from South Africa and had to locum for 18 months before he got a training post in the NHS.

No they are not still ‘training’. They are a fully qualified doctor who can decide to undertake further subspecialisation training…

you might have invested 250K into this doctor but let me tell you now they are not staying in this country and such salaries. More and more are quitting and moving to places like Australia, NZ and the US

others are quitting to work in health tech because let’s be honest these are very well educated people who know what they are worth.

they need a pay rise! Enough is enough….

It is particularly a big issue for women who work less than full time but in reality still 36hours a week. Currently there is more focus on how many hours a week you have worked rather than your actual level of competency to move up a grade. Health Education England have been looking at a more competency based assessment but it is taking a long time to implement.

If anyone tells me I get paid fairly I am redirecting them to this post. Nobody can convince me £9.38 per hour is a fair price. My 18 year old brother laughed in my face telling me he gets paid more working from his bedroom for a customer service team. We both probably received the same amount of calls on this day and honestly I felt so belittled. It's moments like these that make you realise how little you are appreciated. I'm moving abroad next year anyway so it's just another doctor lost.

I'm absolutely shocked at how little this is. I knew doctors were underpaid but did not realise it was to this extent!

I am a pharmacist and used to work in NHS (moved to different role in private sector - COVID was final straw for being treated like I am worthless) and my monthly take home was more than this when working 3 days/week with far less unpaid overtime than a doctor would do.

Absolutely no surprise that so many doctors are leaving the country or the profession

Glad you are in a better paying job role now. I think that's the worst part of working for the NHS, being treated as though you are worthless.

I find these threads so weird. There are plenty of examples of part time GPs earning lots of money. We know the marketing of these 'hourly' paid doctors is manipulated as it doesn't include any of the additional bits like nights / unsocialable hours. Their pay does go up every year even if they are still classified as Junior, they have decent step ups in salary.

And finally why are we so shocked it takes 6-8 years to become a specialist? Does anyone know any high flying 25 yr old solicitors?!or 26 Yr old heads of marketing for large companies ? Or a 27 yr old CFO? Of course it takes a long time to become a senior specialist - it does in every walk of life

I don't know if they should be paid more. I want to know what my doctor is there because he wanted to be a doctor not because he is getting paid £££££. .

I'd love to know where this £250,000 figure that appeared about 20 years ago and keeps being bandied around comes from.

Doctors work. In a lot of specialties, junior doctors do most of patient-facing clinical work.

If you're counting salary, it doesn't seem particularly fair since they are providing, often significant levels of service, for a fraction of the cost of a more senior doctor.

The £250,000 certainly doesn't include any courses, exams or textbooks / training materials, as I paid for all of those myself, so it can't be that.

It isn't used to subsidise transport, parking, accommodation or meals, as all of those things got taken away in the late 2000s.

When I teach students these days, I don't get paid anything for it, so it's not going on paying the trainers.....

With the rises in tuition fees, and current interest rates on student loans, most doctors will pay back well over £200k in just loan repayments over their lifetime, never-mind other taxes, so I highly doubt that even if the gross cost was £250k, the net would as high....

@wot3va I find it so weird that you talk about “part time GPs” and Junior doctors in the same breath! GPs are not Junior Doctors, so it matters not how many examples of part time GPs supposedly making lots of money you’ve heard of.

Just for comparison...DH nearly went to study medicine then changed his mind at the last minute (before we met) and studied economics going into the financial sector after graduation.

Early 2000s post graduation did a qualification with a leading firm whilst working. Salary ranged from £28k-31k over the time. Lots of late nights and overtime without any additional pay that doctors would get but on the flip side, all his training paid for, generous study leave, CPD days, qualification fees paid for and a generous overall package (including car, health insurance etc over and above salary).

Post qualification, salary jumped to £45k and by 26, he was on £60k. He moved roles over this period as not tied to one place and competitive market. In gaps between jobs, took contracting roles paying £400+ per day - more than locum doctor rates unless you take on a last second locum in this environment and much better conditions. By 30, he was earning upwards of £80k and now in late 30s (where his school and uni peers who studied medicine are now consultants, finally just into 6 figures and affected by the utterly ridiculous pension rules), he is earning over £200k. Add to this a very generous benefit package, flexible lifestyle.

I know of multiple former doctors who left the profession to work in other sectors and on similar salaries to DH. These are the salaries and conditions doctors are able to achieve outside the medical field - what incentive are we giving them to stay at the moment? Horrific working conditions, stress, no say over where in the country they work, unable to take annual leave when they want to, extortionate childcare due to shifts, the list goes on... There is only so much 'wanted to be a doctor' they will take before they decide it is not worth the expense on their life, family and mental health. We need to see this and improve retention before it is too late. The bigger problem is retention but this will only be achieved by paying better and making the career attractive to bright individuals who are capable of so much.

As well as having my doctor being one who 'wanted to be a doctor', I want them to be highly intelligent, capable, empathic and able to make the quick decisions under pressure. These individuals are highly sought after everywhere - why should they be doctors right now?!

@prescribingmum that is not the norm though.
Entry requirements are pretty stringent so I think we are still getting intelligent people studying medicine. It just isn't as bad as everyone makes out. Like doctors have some wowed entitlement to get paid a fortune straight away. Public sector always pays less than private. Look at how much a private soldier gets paid who puts his life on the line. Getting blown up for £19k a year. That is more of a travesty than a doctor only early 60-80k or whatever. And if they are so badly paid, why is the pension ceiling a problem?

My friend is a junior doctor and GP in training. She works part time. Gets reasonably paid, gets good holidays, sometimes does a few locum shifts on registrar rates.

I think you will see it is the norm for intelligent individuals and they are now seeing how much more they could get elsewhere for better conditions.

As I said, the conditions are what make the pay unpalatable but the only way to improve conditions is attract more doctors. And the only way to attract more doctors is to pay better. No I don't think they should be earning as much as DH - but where they are right now isnt representative of their skills, knowledge or experience.

I suggest you go look at BMA for the pension issue for consultants - it isnt the ceiling, it is the arbitrary fees.

I should rephrase my second paragraph - I don't think they can realistically expect to earn as much as DH at that age in public sector. But if the pension scandal wasn't there, a lower salary can certainly be offset by the generous pension