So it’s going to work out cheaper to run petrol/diesel cars than it is electric

[RudsyFarmer]

My engineer DP predicted this exact scenario when he replaced our old petrol/diesel cars with newer petrol/diesel cars. Plus there is now a supply issue with batteries which is going to cause a huge issue down the line.

Honestly it’s a scandal that these new cars are hugely expensive. People have locked into lease/hire agreements that are costing a fortune per month and now running the bloody things are going to be exorbitant.

they do.
i think they are available to EV owners only (not sure how this is policed, if it is at all)

The heaters, although MN tells me heaters can't possibly be inefficient are really inefficient

They are only 100% efficient in that they convert 100% of the electricity you put in into heat. That isn’t much help if all the heat stored in them has dissipated by the evening when you need it.

@BertieBotts storage heaters only work well if the set up is designed specifically for that type of heating (very thermally efficient building envelope) most are just bolted on to standard houses/flats so don't work very well as the heat gets dissipated through the structure too quickly.
I have electric in screed underfloor heating designed specifically to work like a storage heater so in the depths of winter my extension is 21degrees with 4hrs overnight of heating. It uses the concrete slab to store the heat and release it through the day, it's trapped inside by the insulation.
I only need to heat it when it's very cold as the space is extremely well insulated so it rarely takes 4hrs to heat the space. It's designed to be much more efficient than standard electric underfloor heating or standard storage heaters but it's the only system our installers had ever done like it before so it required somebody who understands the design to specify it (I'm an architect and specified it after lots of research) so far it's worked really well.
The space is also designed to deal with excess heat in summer and coped very well in the heatwave only struggling a bit when in reached 40degrees.

They work brilliantly, in fact they are a bit too warm. I don't actually know how long they heat for overnight, I just assumed it was 12 hours. The problem is when we use them the cost and usage skyrockets. It's a 60s German tower block and very well built in general.

I topped my EV up to 100% last night, from the 67% it was sitting on. I only have 4 hours cheap each night, so if it was completely empty it would take 3 nights to get back to full. And it would cost just over a fiver. In return for my 7.5p night rate, I pay 40.9p the rest of the time - while the standard tariff is 28p. Now my tariff is fixed, so in October my 40.9p will also look very cheap. But that’s what can happen when you choose to take a fixed rate - my Mum is on a 2-year fix paying less than 3p for gas and 17p for electricity, nothing to do with EV’s.

The car told me this morning that it could do 353 miles on its full battery. I’ve actually driven 113 miles today, and now my car is telling me that with its remaining 70% battery it can do 241 miles - so pretty much spot on.

£5 for 353 miles - 1.4p per mile. Actually, less than that, because a fair chunk of my charging came from my solar panels. No carbon emissions from the non-existent tail-pipe, not many (though some) producing the power to charge it, less brake dust than an ICE car thanks to regenerative braking, similar or possibly more tyre particulates (though that is debatable).

Yes, it cost a lot to buy - more than my previous diesel car. But over its lifetime it will cost a lot less to own and run. And the solar panels and battery cost a lot to buy as well - but have cut my electricity bill by 70%.

If people have money, are they wrong for using it to make their own lives better - and incidentally contribute to better air quality and reduced carbon emissions, which benefit everyone?

It is not EV drivers who have decided that only EV drivers can get these tariffs - that’s the suppliers’ decision. It’s not EV drivers who have decided that Tesco will provide free charging - that’s Tescos’ decision. Should EV drivers not take advantage of what is being freely offered?

It depends on your mileage. Electric is cheaper but you have to factor in the cost of purchasing one and installing a power point. We would like one, but we don't do many miles.

There is a modern up to date projection that includes a lot of charging at public points for people not able to fit charging points at their own home or who travel extensively.

It seems that these public en-route prices have increased rapidly in line with standard tariffs.

Tyres are expensive and every model seems to have size and specification unique to it.
Depreciation is also higher in the new estimate. Which I understand. We are used to buying a 3yr old IC car and keeping it 3yrs. But would not risk buying a 3yr Lithium battery.

Towing situation is improving, The MG is fully approved for (500Kg I think).
I will try and get a copy of the data and post here.

@Andromachehadabadday

And saved a fortune in BIK tax.

That's only temporary, it's already been announced that BIK rates for electric cars are going to rise and once they're mainstream there's no doubt the BIKs will be similar to petrol/diesel cars. The Treasury can't afford to lose the tax revenue from company car BIKS.

My electric car costs £70 per month to charge, I used to spend £400 per month on petrol.
I am on a low fuel rate until September 24.

But would not risk buying a 3yr Lithium battery.

What's the risk with a 3 year old EV?

Sounds like another one of those EV myths to me.

Not sure about depreciation either. My 5 year old BMW i3s was £44k new and they're on Auto trader for £24k. 55% after 5 years is amazing but I accept part of this is due to the effects of COVID.

Although bearing in mind that I got the £4.5k grant, in real terms, it's actually 60% of the money I handed over 5 years ago. That's about £15k or £3k/pa, which is excellent for a car that costs me £2.10 to drive 120 miles.

Even after the recent energy rises our two EV cars are still cheaper to charge at home than how much it they'd cost to fill up with petroleum. Substantially so at the moment.

The only time it is a similar price is if we need to fill up using a rapid charger at a service station in the motorway. This isn't where we do the vast majority of our charging though - that takes place at home overnight,

So, based in charging/fuel alone our EVs are still cheaper to run.

Obviously the cars were dearer to begin with, but as we lease we simply select cars that match how much we are willing to pay monthly and budget our car costs that way.

We have an iPace which we run as our main car, commuting for work every day , kids activities, shopping, trips etc and
last month our total electricity bill was £100 (£120-£20 we sold back to the grid). That was all the electricity for our large house and our car.
Our diesel car has in the same period cost around £200, it's not used as much as the electric car and that's the cost for just fuelling the car not the house as well.
We have solar panels and a battery and are currently signed up to a fixed tariff until October 23. Expensive daytime, cheaper nighttime. It was a gamble when we took it out as the prices were relatively low compared with what we took out although that's not the case now. It's also a more expensive 'green' tariff so it just shows the difference the battery and solar panels make.
The problem is always going to be the upfront costs of a set up that can 'save you money' , you only save over time which is unaffordable for most.

It's all very well for those who can charge their vehicles st home. But 30% of UK households don't have off road parking.

A recent report (26th September) by the RAC says "a driver exclusively using a rapid or ultra-rapid charger on the public network will now pay around 18p per mile for electricity, up from an average of 13p per litre in May. This compares to 19p per mile for a petrol car and 21p per mile for a diesel one, based on someone driving at an average of 40 miles to the gallon."

It goes on "the huge price gap between home and public charging highlights the extent to which drivers who depend on the charging network, including those who don’t have driveways and can’t charge at home, pay a premium to run electric cars."

media.rac.co.uk/pressreleases/public-rapid-electric-vehicle-charging-costs-rise-42-percent-in-four-months-3206451

My former diesel car would give me approx 400 miles to the tank (cost to fill £100 on todays prices).

My EV costs £7:35 (according to my current unit charges as entered on my app) to fill for 300 miles. And that’s middle of the day charging as we have no EV tariff yet. And we shortly get solar panels so it’ll be about zero.

I’ll stick with the EV thanks.

I currently have a petrol courtesy car as my EV is being repaired after a close encounter with another vehicle.

They delivered it practically empty! So rather than use it as I normally would and then fill it up before returning, I’ve been trying to judge how much (little) petrol to put in it so as not to waste any by returning it with half a tank or whatever.

So far I’ve put £18 in…. and I’ve driven about 100 miles in it. Based on watching the distance left indicator, I could probably do another 20 or so before it gets back to where it was when I received it.

£18 to do 120 miles. My EV would give me 1,000 miles for that.

Once again, currently OK if you can charge at home.

For those who can't and have to rely on public chargers (when you can find one that works and is free when you are), the figures here are an eye opener.

www.parkers.co.uk/electric-cars/electric-charging-infrastructure-uk/

I'm thinking about getting one, I only do a very low mileage so would only charge at home, does it matter if you don't charge them very often or do they need regular topping up with electric, looking at probably max 2k miles a year

I don't think it's an issue. I been on holiday for a few weeks and the charge barely changed. Like all cars, the alarm etc will slowly drain the battery but I'm not entirely sure whether the alarm feeds off the main or secondary supply.

Anyway, a battery is supposed to last longest if you keep it within 20-80% of its capacity. This should be no problem for your mileage.

I don't know what sort of mileage you do but if it's all short journeys then an EV will be much better than an engine that never gets hot.