So it’s going to work out cheaper to run petrol/diesel cars than it is electric

[RudsyFarmer]

My engineer DP predicted this exact scenario when he replaced our old petrol/diesel cars with newer petrol/diesel cars. Plus there is now a supply issue with batteries which is going to cause a huge issue down the line.

Honestly it’s a scandal that these new cars are hugely expensive. People have locked into lease/hire agreements that are costing a fortune per month and now running the bloody things are going to be exorbitant.

But as the price of energy rises these will become chargeable. They are not free, nothing is, someone is paying for it.

The one at my dh's work is obviously paid for by his company. It isn't going to become chargeable. He was paying £300 a month for petrol before. Now it's zero.

The one at Tesco, I don't know. But I'm paying as much for my shopping in Tesco as the next person.

It's been free for the last five years so I reckon even if that stops today I will still be happy it was free for five years.

Solar takes years to recoup cost ? No shit Jose! That is not a good reason not to go green if she has the money.
Whats your other suggestion? Keep relying on fossil fuels forever? Do you work for shell 🤣?

I've just had a little read up about the free charging at Tesco. It seems they are adding more free charging points rather than starting to charge for them.

The 'our EV costs us nothing to run unlike all those ICE car driving mugs' need to check their privilege and also acknowledge that other people's mileage may vary (pun intended).

I was one of posters upthread who said the economics don't always stack up, due to the enormous extra cost of an EV (or installing solar panels for 'free' electricity).

I have a 3 YO petrol Skoda Citigo, I could buy a similar car today for about £9k. The same car in the EV version costs over twice as much.

I drive 6000 miles a year and my petrol costs me just under 15 p a mile so about £60 a month.

Call it 2 p a mile for the electricity, so £10 a month. Granted I have to pay £150 ish a year road tax and my servicing is slightly more, so call my petrol/servicing/tax costs an extra £700 per year over that of an EV.

But the purchase price of the EV is at least £9000 more. For the same car, more or less the same age. As I plan to keep the car for 10 to 15 years until it is effectively worthless, and you can probably assume the same for a 15 YO electric vehicle, £9000/£700 equals nearly 13 years before I've saved money on my 'investment' in an electric car. Even if a 15 YO electric car holds more value, which it could well do, then it's still going to me 8/10+ years before the EV starts to save me money.

Obviously the return on the investment will be quicker for higher mileage drivers, but its far from a given that an electric car will be cheaper to run for everyone, because for many it won't be. And that's before we add on the extra cost if you end up having to pay service station rates to charge them.

I agree that EVs are a money saver for people who do lots of miles in short to medium length journeys where they can always charge their car using discount electricity or that which is paid for by someone else (workplace or 'free' public charging) and for people who normally spend a lot of money on their cars.

But if you don't do a lot of miles, or conversely if you do infrequent long journeys where you need to charge while out, or if you don't have or can't afford solar panels (because that's something else that takes years for the investment to pay off) or you can't charge at home because you don't have a driveway, an electric car is far from a cheap option.

An EV is a zero emissions car which is able and ready to receive any mixed source of energy depending on what’s available at the time making. 43% from fossil fuels according to your numbers is way better than relying on filling up with 100% fossil fuel use ( which btw you have forgotten a very imp piece of info that an EV is far more efficient than an ICE car) .
You say we need to move away from ICE, so that great ! But “EVs are not a magic bullet” what your answer then to transport use?

Thats fine but as other posters have said, its being paid for. Its not free. Its on the price of everyones shopping, including people who dont have EVs

Vaccine not at all but people need to be honest about it and also realise that EV, solar etc is currently only available for the privileged. Ultimately it helps the rich get richer.

As for the tesco charge points (or the work ones) this was all planned to lost cost energy, I can not see how it will continue. Work spaces will withdraw free electricity before they start on redundancy I hope.

Thats fine but as other posters have said, its being paid for. Its not free. Its on the price of everyones shopping, including people who dont have EVs

You don't have to shop at Tesco if you feel that they are subsidising her car.

Most supermarkets are at it, most car parks (council run - as a council tax payer I dont want my tax spent on subsidising wealthy people's travel), Ikea is another one.

Free is not free, its never free

The BG EV vehicle tariff is not that cheap,
For example,

Peak unit rate 61.486p per kWh
Off Peak unit rate 30.000p per kWh
Standing charge 2 33.878p per day *

I guess at those prices it is available to anyone

We have solar which the previous house owners bought and they certainly have not made us richer ( you have some preconceived ideas!) but what I do is make sure that I switch on my house utility machines on when it’s sunny to keep our carbon emissions down, and it’s so satisfying watching my smart meter showing that my machines are running at zero cost.

Btw you still haven’t told us what your alternative to an EV is?

Do you realise that applies to lots of things?

They add money because they have to spend millions each year replacing stolen trolleys. I used to work for Asda at head office, and one year it was approximately 15 million.

They put extra on for building click and collect points and needed staff available to take shopping out.

They put extra on to compensate for shop lifters and produce or product damage. Increased security etc

I’ve just lost a huge post by pressing the wrong bloody button! Cant be arsed to write it all again but I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has replied. It’s been a really interesting read 👌

Someone unthread said that their current calculations for an EV would take 8 years to pay for itself so they have binned the idea, guess what ? That’s actually amazing as an ICE car will never pay for itself compared to an EV. so their reasoning is incorrect. Since when did anyone dream of their car paying for itself until now?!

For me it's not about paying for itself but about whether at the end when we come to sell the car which car would have cost us the larger amount.

E.g. an expensive electric car is still expensive even if it costs less to charge compared to petrol/diesel costs. Over the lifetime will it 'pay' to go electric or get a much cheaper car and just have higher fuel bills.

I get 'free' charging because we paid for the infrastructure to do it by installing solar panels & a battery. It's not free but the investment makes sense over time and with current price hikes that is making sense over a much shorter time.
The cheap 'nighttime' rate is a way of spreading usage more evenly and maximising the efficiency of the grid. As others have said as a 'thing' it's been available for years with regards to economy 7 type tariffs it's now been repackaged as a thing for EV owners as the market has changed. It's also available to other people say if they have a battery system but for most it's not worth it because you pay a higher day rate, which means it's more expensive for the majority of use, it only makes sense if you can use the majority of your electricity use between 12-4am.
The Telegraph article that I think the OP was referring to has been picked apart a lot as it's quite flawed in its assumptions. What is true is the relatively high cost of a new EV compared with a standard car but I also find articles talking about this are often flawed too as they compare luxury brand EVs against standard cars (I have a Jaguar iPace and it's often mentioned as it has a higher range - 290miles) and don't consider that the associated costs are also very low due to the 'simplicity' of the machine.
New tech is always more expensive than old when it first comes in and that's what EVs are - fairly new, evolving tech.
Unfortunately without government intervention it's always going to be the better off that can afford to invest upfront to save money be that insulating their houses, buying EVs, buying more efficient appliances, installing PV/battery/heat pumps etc because it costs money to make those efficiencies and make the long term savings.

(I have a Jaguar iPace and it's often mentioned as it has a higher range - 290miles) and don't consider that the associated costs are also very low due to the 'simplicity' of the machine.

I often see these associated costs mentioned and wonder what they are, particularly with new/newish vehicles. It must be more than an oil change every 12 months to make the considerable extra cost of an EV worthwhile.

As for the benefits of ‘simplicity’, according to a Which survey, EVs are less reliable than ICVs.

Associated costs will still mean tyres and stuff like that, I pay out about £500 a year for my ICE Ford Fiesta, its £200-300 for MOT and service, £200 for insurance, no tax but if it needs tyres then it will be more, electric cars probably have lower servicing costs but don't they also need tyres and stuff like brake pads replacing. My ICE car is no tax so no payment there.

Anyone with a five year old EV will still need tyres because of age, we had to replace our hardly worn caravan ones because of age as they deteriorate.

Thats fine but as other posters have said, its being paid for. Its not free. Its on the price of everyones shopping, including people who dont have EVs

That's not what we are talking about though. I suppose I could plug in at Tesco and walk over to the Aldi and do my shopping there so I'm not paying the extra price on my shopping to subsidise the charging point.

Its not free.

It is actually free to me though. My car is being charged for free, and my shopping is the same price if I change there or not.

And the spaces are right next to the entrance!

She/he won't have one (other than the unfeasible Hydrogen option) as they're only interested in naysaying. It comes up every time an EV discussion takes place.

I'm under no illusions that EV's are fairy dust and have zero impact on the environment. That would be silly as nothing we produce is environmentally friendly. However, my feeling is that they're an excellent substitute for the reasons you've mentioned already.

Solar is expensive but charging for free is a huge benefit that's impossible with ICE.

The one big issue that's not being discussed and needs to be, is non exhaust emissions and this affects EV's too. PM2.5 and PM10 is a big problem and whilst regen braking almost eliminated brake dust, tyres are a big problem that will need looking at.

But comparatively EV is way better than ICE.

As for the benefits of ‘simplicity’, according to a Which survey, EVs are less reliable than ICVs.

It's a great headline for the anti EV brigade (not saying you're one) but the issues in that report aren't mechanical/electrical but software related.

So unlike most ICE cars, which often have head gasket, turbo, transmission etc. issues, EV problems are less serious and are often solved via software patches.

It's not great but is what you'd expect from new technology.

But comparatively EV is way better than ICE.

Overall, I would agree with that. However, it does depend on what you are comparing them to. They just doesn’t work for everybody. At the moment, we couldn’t give up ICE completely. We need tow over long distances have proper off-road capability and we need to be able to afford to buy it.

There isn’t a single EV on the UK market at the moment that can satisfy the first two requirements, never mind the third.

It's a great headline for the anti EV brigade (not saying you're one) but the issues in that report aren't mechanical/electrical but software related.

Does it matter what the cause is? Old problems are being replaced by new ones. At the end of the day it’s another car useless being fixed in the garage rather than being driven by the owner

And electric cars share a lot more components with combustion cars than many people realise. Transmissions (albeit usually simpler) and coolant pumps (usually more than one) etc.

I would be better all round if everyone used a bus that had a bus service where they live