MLM Bot Watch 71

[Spongebobette]

Yes it’s the 71st thread focused on exposing the lies of MLMs and the deceptions practiced by so/called ‘leaders’ who recruit recruit recruit!
You will only lose money if you join their ‘team’ - don’t do it!

I think they're just trying to draw in and trap as many victims as possible on their 'course' in order to milk them of 40 quid a month for 2 years or however long the thing lasts.
The advantage over an MLM as far as they're concerned is that once they have 'recruited' someone, it doesn't matter if they leave, as they will still continue to take £40 a month off them regardless.
They will be hoping to add new recruits over time to extend the period they will be making an income from it, but I expect it will be dwindling new blood as the initial hype wears off and those stuck in the milking parlour get increasingly despondent at the whole thing.
For Fierce and Castle, there will be less and less reason to put any effort into the 'content', as the audience doesn't actually matter once they're lured in and paying.
Especially in Castle's case, where she can't stick to something for more than a couple of days, she'll start skipping sessions or using recordings.
The real work will be going on behind the scenes, bullying those who want out with Small Claims Court threats to keep them coughing up. I can't imagine someone being coerced like that still wanting to attend 'sessions' and pretend everything is alright, so that by the end, Castle and Fierce won't even have to pretend to make the effort of presenting anything as no one will be watching anymore (however, they will still be paying, which is the whole point!)

I did try, but only lasted two minutes, it’s such a load of twaddle. It was audio and stills only when I looked. Even the continuity between the original site and the launch live is a mess - it’s basically another FB page.

The T&C though would be vastly amusing were they not so cruel and dangerous. I was going to highlight some more sections, but gave up as every sentence is a gem; I highly recommend a good read of the whole document.

The section I’ve quoted below though, does this mean it’s going to be a bit woo too, or are they using “medium” in the serious business sense of it being a channel of communication:

All services provided by guest/expert/medium should be considered as entertainment services only and should not be taken as any form of legal, medical, financial, business, or any other type of professional advice

The T&C are very clear that you can cancel at any time in the sense that you can stop using their offerings, but the debt still has to be paid in full.

I think they will reel in some of the coaches, who have signed up for this, as cheap labour.

There are definitely stooges amongst the admiring hoards online.

This frenzy won’t whip itself up.

And the kicker is - the poor cash cows will BLAME THEMSELVES

Entertainment 😬

There doesn't appear to be any mention of a cooling off period immediately after signing up- is that legal?

'6.8 Any payment methods used by you to make payment will be held on your file and attached to your account, all payments will be automatically attempted from the default method you set. In the event of a failed payment attempt, the next payment method on your file will be used. To remove any saved payment methods from your account please contact us. Please note that you must at all times have at least one payment method saved on your account. If a request for the removal of a payment method would result in no payment methods being saved on your account then such removal request shall be refused unless and until a valid replacement method is provided'

People have signed up to this, without reading these T&C's.
They will refuse to remove a card held on their account, unless, a replacment card or payment method is applied.

Any solicitors on this board, surely that is not legal?!

Also the two limited companies listed on the T&C's are not registered with companies house?

Surely the whole T&Cs are the very definition of an 'unfair contract' and hence unenforceable?

What constitutes an unfair contract?
A standard term is unfair 'if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer'– Regulation 5(1). Unfair terms are not enforceable against the consumer.

Seems to fit

Exactly

Also, does it say anywhere what Law applies ?

11.5 These Terms are governed by English law.

I

I'm in the 'group' but haven't yet had time to find and read the T&Cs but my other half is a corporate/ IP / contract solicitor so if you put anything you want to know below then I'll ask him when he finishes work

@ticktock19 - Follow the 'Pay' links, takes you to the payment page where there are further links to the T&Cs and and Privacy Policy.
They are not that long, it would probably be easier to ask him to read them and note what he reckons are the salient points.
My main question would be whether they would actually be enforceable as a whole.

Quick calculation reveals they only need 500 sign ups to make 10k a month each. With zero overheads they are laughing all the way to the bank.
There is an ex solicitor on the group, surely she has read the T&Cs. Or maybe she is a mole🤣

I cannot see how half these people are going to benefit from the business knowledge of F&C. Most people who don’t make it in business are generally unable to commit to the high level of involvement and hard work it entails. There are no secret shortcuts to success.
Neither of them has experience in most of the areas needed for business coaching. They would be better setting up a business on how to manipulate and influence people. Now that would appeal to much of todays youth who want a fast track to riches. Oops that’s what this is.

@Twentytwentyhindsight, thank you, will have a look and screenshot them and get his views. I told him about the not being able to cancel payments and that shocked him and he thinks that is 'not right'.

My eyes are out in stalks at the brazen scammery of Castle & Fierce: they really are a pair of narcissistic sociopaths. I hope that anyone gullible enough or vulnerable enough to sign up uses a credit card - at least they can Section 75 the hell out of them when the penny drops & they realise they’ve been sold a lie.

in other news! Unbelievably, Salon & her usual cohorts are SMASHING it in their new chicken cartilage chocolate fat-burner diet MLM! Lots of tears, lots of promotions lots of same old same old rinse repeat & start again.

@ticktock19 - Great! What strikes me as worse still about the payments thing is that until you actually sign up, all you're being told is "only £39/month!", with nothing saying for how many months and that it is a staggered payment of the whole thing, rather than a monthly subscription (which is what you'd guess from the way it is presented).
Maybe it is not so much your OH's specialism, but a question I have regarding this is that this would appear to make the contract a credit agreement of some sort- would they not have to be regulated by the FCA to do this?

Basically they create a sense of FOMO and the desperate almost sign their lives away

is no one in the group asking questions about how many months?

No, but people are 'literally crying' that they are in. One person has said she has always wanted to go to University.

You can question the ethics all day long, but they do pull a great trick!

They'll be "literally crying" that they're in for the next two years!

I'm convinced the vast majority of those joining are doing so under the impression that £40 is something they can afford for a couple of months to bask in the euphoria of being part of such a wave of enthusiasm. When they realise there is no off ramp, the training is worthless and the cost of living squeeze gets ever tighter, there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Caveat Emptor, but fools rush in...

@Twentytwentyhindsight he says they probably don't have to be FCA registered because they're not actually selling / signing people up for a financial product or advice and it's doing that that would require FCA registration but he'll look at it all in more detail over the weekend. Unfortunately, it looks like it is indeed that the buyers need to be very aware of what they're signing up to but we all know that that doesn't apply in the cult like world of MLMs ☹️

And Castle goes on and on about ‘trust’ ‘transparency’ and ‘authenticity’

absolute scam artist

I've just read the email that I got sent this morning by them, the last bit about no contracts etc is a blatant lie then and my OH says them basing themselves in Gibraltar means they don't have to be on Company's House here and to check the Gibraltar register comes with a fee. They're definitely trying evade all the regulations over here