MLM Bot Watch 71

[Spongebobette]

Yes it’s the 71st thread focused on exposing the lies of MLMs and the deceptions practiced by so/called ‘leaders’ who recruit recruit recruit!
You will only lose money if you join their ‘team’ - don’t do it!

That is so dodgy. I would hope it is not legal under consumer protection laws.

I just looked at their sign up page

“Castle’s never before shared Facebook strategy for Network marketing, turning cold leads and friends into raving fans, prospects and team members.
In just ten minutes per day!
NO cold messaging, EVER!”

So Castle didn’t share that brilliant strategy to any of her downline who she was supposed to be helping to success? Huh. Seems odd given that it would have financially benefitted her. It also means it is unprovable whether it scales and replicates well.

@Spongebobette I gather that is Fierce’s normal MO as per online disclosures from previous victims.

The more cynical among us could wonder why the purchase price appears to be clouded in mystery, again from the T&C:

The purchase price of the Service is clearly highlighted and agreed in the Order and communication between US and is charged per month of enrolment payable in advance. Should you feel you are not totally sure on the Purchase price of the Service, please contact Us prior to the commencement of Service. For the avoidance of any doubt, if you cease to engage or leave the Service for any reason, you agree and acknowledge you are still obligated to pay any outstanding sums of the agreed purchase price as outlined in the Order and these Terms

Default is charged at 8% above Bank of England base rate plus £70 admin fee.

I just wish Nurse would put that £39 in a savings account and at the end of the year take her little boy to legoland for the weekend.
A much better investment than the load off guff being blown by this “power couple”.

(To misquote Tywin Lannister “Anyone who has to say, “we are power couple”, is not part of a power couple”)

Good god

they have certainly hit on a way to rinse the vulnerable and gullible

Traceyfudge77 Did you have to sit through the vip event for that info?

If you did , thanks for taking one for the team.

Hmm. Lots of people questioning this on the 'fan' page. Lots of people saying 'no you're not tied in and can leave anytime' but not from the horses mouth.

I suppose it depends where they are registered?

Do they say anywhere clearly how much this actually costs - how long the 39 per month goes on for?

It sounds beyond scammy. Castle's reputation, such as it is, will end up in tatters. Can't she see it?

I predict much cancelling going on at FL HQ - they need to disassociate, and quick.

From the fan page.

How does one find the fan page?

That's good if they can cancel any time.

But I bet they can't - Fierce has form.

The T&C clearly states that they can disengage at any time but are still contractually obliged to pay the fee they have agreed to. So if the fee is 1k for example they may be paying £39 per month for a couple of years until they have completed the payment they signed up for.
it is cleverly worded to confuse the hard of thinking.
They have hidden the con in clear site, rely on the initial hype/hook locking in a large number of people into paying them £39 a month for the next few years. Anyone who defaults will be subjected to small claims court procedure which will (they hope) stop others from defaulting.
It really is money for old rope with no product for sale. Overheads are minimal, it costs nothing to spout bullshit online. Pure profit.
However with a little bit of investigation it may be possible to close them down. Remember Al Capone, it only took a dodgy tax return.
Neither woman is blessed with intelligence or business acumen, they have no ethics or morals. I do wonder whether there is another level to this business and they are not top of this particular pyramid. Is someone else pulling the strings?

I agree. The whole point of this scam is to entice the victims in with an 'affordable' monthly fee, while burying in the small print that once you're in, there is no get out clause- the whole thing will have to be paid in full, regardless of whether the content is suitable or whether you attend.

In terms of consumer rights, how do you determine whether this or that 'woo coaching' is fit for purpose?

Do Fierce and Castle even lay out a structured list of deliverables that can be expected?

This thing is set up so that their 'legal team' will spend more time bullying those who want out for their payments as Castle and Fierce will in providing 'content'.

The victims are being made to feel part of a big safe community of like minded, enthusiastic believers, but as soon as reality sinks in and they want out, they will very much be isolated and on their own and find out they are no longer dealing with the fluffy personae portrayed in the group, but up against a ruthless and faceless set-up designed solely to extract their money. I expect the 'legal team' will also threaten them with all manner of lawsuits if they were to dare share their situation with others in the group (any negativity or dissent will be immediately censored in the groups anyway).

Has anyone seen if Nurse has signed up?

A 12 yr old girl is on the page wanting to sign up probably through her mum. Absolute vultures castle and fierce.

So only £39 a month to sign up, but tied in for the full price, that has to be requested and is not listed prior to you entering into the agreement.
I am sure any contract solicitor would tie that up in knots on no time at all.
Clear, precise and not misleading as a starting point argument.
In addition, if they are offering this staged payment, is one not entering into a financial agreement. With all the distance selling and contract law over riding their own ‘rules’
offering credit without FCA registration is a criminal offence.

I see this ending very badly for them both, all it takes is one complaint, who they can’t bully, one pull on the yarn and the whole thing falls apart.

The problem is that they have picked a bunch of people who are not going to be savvy enough to spot that it's money for old rope and that they are being conned. If they do, they are also likely to be overwhelmed by the intimidation thrown at them an fold. If they happen to be made of sterner stuff and threaten the house of cards, they will be offered an out and a refund in exchange for not taking it further.

In the purely legal sense, of course @fromdownwest is right. It is almost tempting tho sign up, documenting the various steps and when information is disclosed, and then going for them!

They are not going to value this course for any less than a few thousand so people will be in debt to them for years at £39 a month.

That ‘you can cancel at any time’ reply - wonder if it was from one of their team - bet there are people I the chat just there to allay any doubts
(and delete and block anyone who points out if you cancel you are still obliged to keep paying)

Quite a worrying T&C. The wording is ambiguous. Does it mean you have to pay if you infringe or that by agreeing not to infringe you pay for the licence fee of 25k. Is this the actual cost of their course?

I think that is stating that if you infringe their IP, i.e sell on or give away their course without their consent, then you oblige to pay £25k.

The first part is standard, the second part is questionable, they would have to prove that they have 'lost' £25k of business, so yes, in a way, they value the course content at that price, that does not mean it 'costs' that much for the course.

2.4 You acknowledge and agree not to exploit or otherwise infringe our Intellectual Property Rights, in doing so you agree to pay Us a licence fee of £25000 which is payable immediately.
By acknowledging and agreeing not to do something you agree to pay the licence fee???
Anyone with any legal knowledge like to comment?

It is an infringement clause but poorly worded.
Are we seeing the birth of a new MLM. Now they have all started coaching in NM, have Castle and friend worked out that there is money to be made by setting up their own MLM coaching business. The business model is all they really know, are they looking to be top of their own pyramid.

Am I missing something, the listed limited company, is not showing as registered on companies house?

The more I read of the T&C's the more I am in shock:

'reasonably feel' - How very subjective, not sure the law works on feels!

'9.4 We may terminate the Contract immediately (without any liability to provide any refund to you) if I reasonably feel that you are not participating fully in the Sessions, that you are disrupting the Sessions or for any other reason where we reasonably feel that your presence is adversely impacting on the Sessions, other clients/customers, Officers, Contractors, Staff, third party partners or Directors.'