Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Money matters

Find financial and money-saving discussions including debt and pension chat on our Money forum. If you're looking for ways to make your money to go further, sign up to our Moneysaver emails here.

Original poster

AIBU- Sister is angry i wont sell my share of the house!

190 replies

CollegeDoctor · 20/10/2021 00:43

DH and I are in great need of the hive mind. So last year due to issues with our father, we , my mother and brother and I. Purchased a home for my mother to live in. We asked dear sister to contribute, however she had'nt got the money at the time so could'nt. SO fast forward a year and a pandemic and the property value has increased by £40,000. Dsister came back and asked if she could purchase the house from us, i stupidly said yes and that she could do it at the price we bought at. (i really didnt think she would get all her ducks in a row)

Fast forward 2 months and she has and now wants to proceed to conveyancing. I know i was wrong to lead her on and promise, but i don't want to sell as the property is certain to continuing appreciating. What should i do ? What would you do?
Dsister is very angry that i have wasted her time.

OP posts:
PinkWaferBiscuit · 20/10/2021 08:39

If you bought the house with your mum and brother you should ever never sell it to anybody ever without their consent!

The thing many of us are pointing out is she doesn't actually need their consent they don't actually own the property. The money given to the OP by her brother and mum is not protected and nothing more than a gift.

The OP could sell it tomorrow and give them nothing and they wouldn't have anything to say they had paid for 2/3 of the property.

Not to mention if the OP were to die her husband would be the sole owner of the house.

Xenia · 20/10/2021 08:41

The poster hasn't been very clear. Are she and her husband the only ones on the pro;perty's title and they live there with the mother and brother and the mother and brother paid but are not on the deeds? If so they probably have an equitable interest in it and ought today to register that at the land registry for a start so it cannot be sold under them and the family should draw up a written deed using a solicitor for that.

The promise to the sister might be a legally binding agreement- English law does allow those sometimes although I doubt the sister will sue to get her share.

It sounds like paying for one hour with a solicitor would be a good thing so all the family can have everything cleared up.

People also need to remember these days that if they own one property often a second one comes with normal, stamp duty land tax plus an extra 3% SDLT so again take legal and tax advice on the consequences of that too.

EvilPea · 20/10/2021 08:43

@CSJobseeker

And you missed my point about cheaper properties. In most areas, if houses go up in value, the house you can now afford for your £100k Is just a smaller house. You can't afford the one that's now £140k, but that isn't the only properly out there.
No I didn’t miss it, my maths explained why it may be the only way she can buy. With what is essentially a bigger deposit (which would involve the op basically gifting the increase to her). Years ago I tried to buy the house I was renting, due to adverse credit (my ex was financially abusive) the bank wanted 20% deposit not 10% to even look at me. It wouldn’t matter where or value of the property they wanted 20%, nowhere commutable was worth 10% less. So if I moved to a cheaper area I’m then unemployed so not able to get a mortgage. Incidentally in two years that tiny home then doubled in value. Wages didn’t.

But I do agree the only way this situation will work is to split it four ways. It’s a recipe for disaster for so many reasons and ops mum & brother are massively vulnerable. Split it four ways, each pay a utility bill and 1/4 upkeep. Otherwise it’s a confusing nightmare.

CSJobseeker · 20/10/2021 08:44

The promise to the sister might be a legally binding agreement

Given the amount of gazumping / gazundering that goes on, I don't think offers to buy/sell property can be legally binding until written contracts have been exchanged? I understand it's different in Scotland though.

dudsville · 20/10/2021 08:45

You've had some tough responses here OP. I just wanted to share a similar thing from my own family. My mother had a nice car she wanted to sell. It was her deceased husband's and was a classic, worth a lot of money. My brother adored the car and really wanted it. He didn't have the money, it didn't fit his extreme rural lifestyle, and he has form for not following through with ideas and plans. My mother did offer it to him but only if he could come up with the funds to buy it outright, not his preferred method of monthly payments. So she got to look like she was genuinely offering something she really didn't intend to have to see through. I understand OP how sometimes those gestures can be meaningful. It's a shame this time it didn't go as planned, and I don't think you're a heel for having tried that road.

CSJobseeker · 20/10/2021 08:48

EvilPea - It's just that you're assuming that there are no smaller/cheaper properties out there for her to buy. But in most areas of the UK, that wouldn't be the case.

This isnt like your example. She's buying the house as an investment, not to live in (because her mum lives in it), so she doesn't need it to be commutable to her work. There is no way that she 'needs' to buy this particular investment property rather than a different one in another town.

Tilltheend99 · 20/10/2021 08:48

So she won’t own the house just the main share of the house. Basically you made 40k on the house and don’t want to loose it to your sister.

Your family sounds like a nightmare tbh however a compromise would be to sell her a smaller share and to keep a share yourself.

You have messed your sister around.

Her not being able to afford a share on the house originally does not make her a bad person unless there is a lot more to this.

Telling your sister she could do this then changing your mind when you saw ££ is pretty awful never mind unreasonable.

CSJobseeker · 20/10/2021 08:51

@dudsville

You've had some tough responses here OP. I just wanted to share a similar thing from my own family. My mother had a nice car she wanted to sell. It was her deceased husband's and was a classic, worth a lot of money. My brother adored the car and really wanted it. He didn't have the money, it didn't fit his extreme rural lifestyle, and he has form for not following through with ideas and plans. My mother did offer it to him but only if he could come up with the funds to buy it outright, not his preferred method of monthly payments. So she got to look like she was genuinely offering something she really didn't intend to have to see through. I understand OP how sometimes those gestures can be meaningful. It's a shame this time it didn't go as planned, and I don't think you're a heel for having tried that road.
It's totally different. If you brother had found the money - would she have gone through with the sale?

I'm guessing yes, because there was no detriment to her.

There is a difference between making an offer that you don't expect to have to make good on (but will happily do so when it comes to it), and making an offer that you have zero intention of ever making good on.

thevassal · 20/10/2021 08:51

But if you and your dh "only" own a third of the property then you won't have lost 40k, only a third of that. While 13k is still a lot to lose is it worth losing your relationship with your sister over?

While the property might continue to appreciate in the future, it also might not, and if you get that money back you can always put it into a different property which you will receive all of any profits from, not just one third.

You could explain to your sister that selling your share to her at cost price will leave you at a loss (given the original legal fees and if you hadn't bought your share at the start you would either have bought a different property or at the very least had some interest from the money) and see if she would be willing to put a few grand towards that. Alternatively maybe explain to her that she might be better off if she has got that much of a deposit to spend it on her own house not one third of a house she can't live in.

However if she still wants to buy it I think morally you're in a pretty bad place if you now change your mind...try and think of the positives that you won't have to be involved in sorting any maintenance, etc.

BluebellsGreenbells · 20/10/2021 08:55

I’m not sure why she wants to buy a third of a house she’s not going to live in? Is there a reason? Who would she be able to sell too in the future if she needs the money - or any of you for that matter?
Do you get rent paid on your share? Or just the increased value? Who pays for repairs that need doing or the property upkeep? What happens if your brother needs to move out or your mother dies?

Sound complicated

knittingaddict · 20/10/2021 08:57

I've read your posts op.

So you and your husband, your brother and your mum all paid money towards a house, but only you and your husband have your names on the deeds. Is that right? Is there a mortgage?

If this is true then it sounds like a legal nightmare that puts the rest of your family at great risk. What were you all thinking?

MajorCarolDanvers · 20/10/2021 09:04

Legal advice is needed for all involved in this arrangement - whether you sell or not.

This is a total disaster waiting to happen.

TractorAndHeadphones · 20/10/2021 09:16

@thevassal

But if you and your dh "only" own a third of the property then you won't have lost 40k, only a third of that. While 13k is still a lot to lose is it worth losing your relationship with your sister over?

While the property might continue to appreciate in the future, it also might not, and if you get that money back you can always put it into a different property which you will receive all of any profits from, not just one third.

You could explain to your sister that selling your share to her at cost price will leave you at a loss (given the original legal fees and if you hadn't bought your share at the start you would either have bought a different property or at the very least had some interest from the money) and see if she would be willing to put a few grand towards that. Alternatively maybe explain to her that she might be better off if she has got that much of a deposit to spend it on her own house not one third of a house she can't live in.

However if she still wants to buy it I think morally you're in a pretty bad place if you now change your mind...try and think of the positives that you won't have to be involved in sorting any maintenance, etc.

She will still be involved as her husband owns the other half…
drpet49 · 20/10/2021 09:18

** Except it appears that there aren't 3 owners, there are 2 - OP and her DH.

OP won't be drawn on the legal details but it sound like she got her mum and brother to stump up cash without actually giving them a legal stake in the property. No wonder OP doesn't want to give up her scam!**

^This. Shame on you OP.

diddl · 20/10/2021 09:25

Well it all sounds a bit odd, but really if Op now says that she won't sell or won't sell at the price she bought at, how could the sister be surprised by that?

Why would the sister even think that it was OK to offer that?

CSJobseeker · 20/10/2021 09:32

@diddl

Well it all sounds a bit odd, but really if Op now says that she won't sell or won't sell at the price she bought at, how could the sister be surprised by that?

Why would the sister even think that it was OK to offer that?

The OP made the offer, not the sister.
SeasonFinale · 20/10/2021 09:34

There are all sorts of issues that would arise.

Transfer at an undervalue still leads to CGT payable by OP and DH based on what the actual market value would be.

Higher rate stamp duty would be payable by the sister as an investment property.

Did you make the offer and DH has said no way.

Is the property in your names in an attempt for MIL to defraud FIL in a divorce?

IveGotASongThatllGetOnYNerves · 20/10/2021 09:35

Is your mum and brother's investment protected at all?

PinkWaferBiscuit · 20/10/2021 09:36

Why would the sister even think that it was OK to offer that?

She didn't offer the OP made the offer.

Maybe naively the sister thought the OPs word meant something. After all her mum and brother are also relying on the OPs word that they will see their money again should the property sell. The OPs word is literally all they have as protection as they are not on any if the documents so it wouldn't seem too ridiculous for the sister to think the OPs word actually was binding.

If I were her sister I would be encouraging my mum and brother to get legal advice ASAP before they are left high and dry.

diddl · 20/10/2021 09:38

"The OP made the offer, not the sister."

I read it that the sister was initially asked but said no, but has now asked it she can buy Op's share.

Op said yes but has changed her mind.

anonymousanne · 20/10/2021 09:38

@drpet49

** Except it appears that there aren't 3 owners, there are 2 - OP and her DH.

OP won't be drawn on the legal details but it sound like she got her mum and brother to stump up cash without actually giving them a legal stake in the property. No wonder OP doesn't want to give up her scam!**

^This. Shame on you OP.

Yes, there is an (un)surprising lack of detail and the OP doesn't seem to want to answer a single question asked to help clarify the situation, but is clearly just wanting to dissolve herself of any bad feelings by people agreeing she shouldn't hand over the built equity/potential future equity to her sister. Half a tale here so how can anyone come to a conclusion!?
Greenhand · 20/10/2021 09:40

@EdgeOfTheSky

As this is not your primary residence and money would change hands there would potentially be SDLT on the whole value, not just her share if the whole house would now be in her name.

Capital Gains Tax for you, on the whole value, given that the whole house is in your name…

‘In your name’ means you are the legal owner of the whole house.

How is your brother’s and Mum’s money protected?

Absolutely. You will end up with a CGT bill assuming your gain is over the annual allowance. That is tax you will need to pay to HMRC. (Your sister is a related party and hence the transaction is deemed market value) SDLT - a cost for your sister again probably full market value being the amount used to calculate the charge.
FABandProud · 20/10/2021 09:40

Does the sister want to buy the whole house at the cost of 1 third (of the original) purchase price ? I mean, why wouldn't she? That's a great deal. Just like the one the OP managed to con her family into agreeing to. No wonder the sister is pissed of with the OP. Looks like the sister has figured out that if anything happens to OP then the house goes to her husband or kids or according to whatever is in her will. Or, similarly, when Mum dies, OP gets the whole house and she might even be planning to return to her brother his original investment, and not any share of any increase in value.

Bluntness100 · 20/10/2021 09:45

A verbal agreement in this context is usually legally binding. I doubt she will do down th legal route of that though. Or would she?

Bottom line is it’s beyond a shitty thing to do. And to know she’s off getting her self sorted. When you had no intention of following through, you blatantly lied to her face.

Appalling.

Bogeyes · 20/10/2021 09:49

She had her chance and missed the boat. Tell her NO. The damage is done now so things probably won't be the same anyway