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MLM Bot Watch 40 - Forever Living is 40! Yet still 99% of people in all MLM's lose money

984 replies

Whiterangey · 29/05/2018 12:27

Not making money with Forever Living?

Not making money with any MLM?

How to make money with Forever Living?
How to make money with MLM?

Maybe this report done for the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) by Jon M. Taylor, MBA, Ph.D., of the Consumer Awareness Institute may have the reason why.

www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00008%C2%A0/00008-57281.pdf

When someone urges you to join an MLM in their downline with tales of the riches you can earn, all they are trying to do is use you to earn themselves more money. They know the stats, they know you won't make money and you will lose money, and friends.

They will lovebomb you, be your best friend, be all over you and then drop you like a stone.

Look at the person who is your uplines facebook. See how the people who were tagged in her statuses a year ago the same way you are tagged now are doing. Are they still with the company? Many won't be. Those who are will still not be doing well, exactly the same as a year ago, or two years ago.

If you are in Forever living, check facebook for the global rally cheques of your upline, notice how they have been going down year on year? The market reached saturation point in 2015, it's downhill since then and things will get worse, not better.

Most MLM's in the UK are at the same point, we are not a huge country and MLM's have reached saturation point.

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Happypuppy · 15/06/2018 10:18

I hear ya fitty. These threads may as well be renamed “Yawn watch”. It was embarrassing to see the gleeful hand rubbing over the car yesterday when it turned out to be incorrect information.

I get that she peddles lies etc but it’s become ridiculous. She’s not the only one.

I’m as guilty as the next person for stalking her profile a few times a week, I’ve been disappointed of late not to see any pictures of her adorable dogs and kitten.

(Yawn, as I’m being nice could you oblige please? Thanks!)

PopPopRadio · 15/06/2018 10:25

I have to say I absolutely agree with dropdeadfitty. These threads have always been dedicated to campaigning against the industry, exposing the fraud and lies that are perpetuated by MLM companies and adherents and trying to help former, current and prospective adherents to make informed choices and not fall for what is basically an enormous scam.

While I can understand pointing out discrepancies between an MLMer's posts and reality is useful to that goal, I do feel the thread is too personal and too focussed on a few individuals.

Leaving aside the point of whether this is bullying or not, you're making it too easy for the companies to dismiss these people as being non-compliant or unsuccessful because they didn't work their business correctly. Basically they could spin it to their advantage.

Let's not help the other side here.

Eddierussett · 15/06/2018 10:37

It is difficult because the founders of these companies have made their millions/billions by persuading people they can have a particular lifestyle. As they keep their scheme just legal it is hard to see how to go after the founders other than by proving that their schemes don't deliver what is promised. And if you only look at people who have lost everything you get told they didn't do it properly because these other people got rich so you have to look at the apparent success stories to see if they are being deceptive/ruthless. It is a fine line from that to becoming too personal and I agree with those saying these threads don't always stay the right side of that line. And in focusing on those with a social media profile it overlooks those who are top UK bots by other means and they are able to continue to harm people's lives and finances.

Whiterangey · 15/06/2018 13:36

It is fact, she does owe 180k and it is publically available information. It was discussed in detail where that information comes from and where you can find it yourself.

It's companies house, you can look up the information yourself, and the information for all the bots, they are all on there. Including the bot whose company is insolvent but is still telling everyone she is making bank. That one owes a tax bill of I think it is 120k but is only on the hook for about 55k of it as she is responsible for that as she owed that money but the rest will die with the death of the company.

The top bots are the industry in my opinion, if it wasn't for their greed in earning as much money as they can and employing whatever method they desire to make that money.

Rex and friends are the owners, but they aren't the ones who draw people in to the scheme, they don't need to, they have plenty of people to do that for them. They just sit at the top and make all the money.

We've written to MP's, some people in the anti-mlm world have gone further, blogs, facebook pages, TV appearances, putting so much effort into everything anti-MLM.

I personally assign a lot of the Forever Living's decline in the UK to those people they have, and continue to, work their tits off.

You obviously don't agree, we all have different opinions, but we cannot eradicate the companies or change the law in the short or even medium term. MLM's are going to stay legal, and the only thing we can realistically do is bring awareness to how they operate and the lies they tell to stop more victims being involved.

I've stopped a grand total of one person joining an MLM, I cried and I am really proud of that.

My personal goal is to double that.

The truth is the MLM's themselves are untouchable, they may turn a blind eye to what their bots get up to, i've reported bots and nothings happened, others have too. They may encourage their bots to behave a certain way, I don't know. Hopefully the time will come when the law will change but that won't be short term, and is unlikely to be medium term either.

The only realistic thing we can do is to target the potential bots by giving them a realistic view of what being a bot is like, and how the top bots who are showing them a certain lifestyle and how that is achievable are not being honest.

Yup, we got too gossipy and we were wrong about the car, that doesn't change the fact that Yawn is taking money off people who can't afford it while knowing all about the 99.7% figure in the study in the OP.

I will continue to carry on and hopefully i'll either be responsible for another bot not joining an MLM or be partly responsible.

My personal instincts tell me to message Norfolk Bot and tell her she's been had, I look at her facebook and see her getting no interest at all in her business, knowing she is losing money, knowing she will be losing more the longer she stays in. I can't do that, she won't listen. It makes me so sad and angry that she got ripped off and thought she was going to have an income and a dream that was impossible and Yawn knew that at the time she was urging her to sign up.

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BSintolerant · 15/06/2018 13:42

Has the information regarding the Directors Loan come from the Companies House website? That's public information so it's fair game.

How can anyone be sure that a second mortgage application has been refused? That sort of information is confidential - unless the applicant has told someone who has then blabbed.

Whatever the case I doubt she's on the breadline.

Paddy1234 · 15/06/2018 14:13

Yes I agree that sometimes it does get too close for comfort.
However, all it takes is for that one person and others to make their profile 'private'
This would potentially stop a lot of the stalking.
However by doing this they almost certainly close off a lot of their market place by trying to sell their 'elusive' lifestyle so it's a double edged sword.
Why do you think that Yawns bff has suddenly started posting again - surely there must be some sort of correlation between public profile and recruit numbers.

Whiterangey · 15/06/2018 14:25

Yup, the directors loan information is all on the website.

It's what happened to tax bot she borrowed 55k from the company, the company had a huge tax bill of I think £120k. She firstly didn't file her accounts, when that happens CH will talk about striking the company off the register, if that happens everything ends. HRMC look out for this and they objected to it.

As it's a limited company she is not responsible for the tax bill or anything else the company owes if the company goes insolvent. She however borrowed the 55k from the company. The company owes HMRC money and Tax Bot owes the company money so they then go after Tax Bot for the money owed.

Yawn owes 180k, if she can't pay that back then it can be taxed as income, while it's loaned out it isn't taxed I think. Yawn has to pay that back within 9 months of the end of the company tax year.

I'm a little confused about when exactly that is, but I believe she will have needed to pay it back by March 2018 or get a hefty tax bill.

Last year her tax bill was £650 because she took money as a loan instead of dividends. The year before her tax bill was £50k, so she's save a huge chunk of change and a lot of tax they will be looking for if it's not paid back.

There is more but his is complicated and i'm barely able to understand it, i'm stupid, if someone here wants to explain this using only one syllable words i'd be grateful. This is why accountants are needed.

I'll put up a link, remember that the only 'person' that someone in an MLM is likely to owe money to while running the business is HRMC, so they would be the only creditor, like what happened to Tax Bot.

www.realbusinessrescue.co.uk/overdrawn-directors-loan-accounts

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BangingOn · 15/06/2018 14:57

That’s really helpful white, my JP Bot has taken directors loan and I’ve struggled to get my head around it.

I assume the bots draw a salary from their business also?

Whiterangey · 15/06/2018 15:30

@BangingOn I have no idea really but I think they take share things, like a payment at the end of the year after all the things they owe are taken away.

Although they will need money throughout the year so maybe they take it like a salary.

A directors loan becomes a problem when the business doesn't do so well and it becomes a struggle, or impossible to pay back the loan at the end of the 21 months. In the case of Forever the top bots are earning a lot less each year yet their loan accounts are getting bigger.

Not all of them do the loan thing, it is really not sensible and I believe someone who was knowledgeably about such things said that and that the loan will be taxed as income if not paid back.

The problem comes when you've borrowed more than the company earns. Yawn is either there or very close to it judging by previous years accounts. Her accounting year ends in 15 days and this year will have half of the year she 'took off' and for the first time in many years will include no cheque. It's very possible she has not been able to pay back that £180k and is unable to take funds from this years accounting period to pay it back and get another one.

There is something about that as well, paying off the loan account by using another loan or something. It has a name and I haven't got the skills to understand it. I'll try and find an article.

I have a newfound respect for accountants, and can fully understand why they are so well educated and have to pass all of those exams and stuff. Accounting stuff is hard.

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ArbunneHun · 15/06/2018 15:30

Yay!!! Huns! The d-list skaters from Dancing On Ice who were recruited by some Nu:Skin bots and are promoting the over-priced rubbish all over Instagram have only been running their bizniz for 14 days and they’re already SMASHING IT! What #bossbabes, eh?

ArbunneHun · 15/06/2018 15:38

...and it’s the Vida convention in Las Vegas this week. Is it really a year since Messiah picked up his disingenuous million $ cheque???

A lot can happen in 12 months in the world of MLM, can’t it?

Whiterangey · 15/06/2018 15:50

Now Messiah is going to be even richer! I love that cheque, it's my favourite cheque ever.

I also loved it when he started to put disclaimers about it on all the photos saying it was lifetime earnings instead of one payment.

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ArbunneHun · 15/06/2018 16:46

Lowest-rent MLM trick ever: giving out big showy cheques to represent the amount you have already earned and been paid. At least the stupid big showy cheques in other MLMs represent bonuses/additional payments.

BangingOn · 15/06/2018 17:07

White that’s really helpful, thank you. I also have huge respect for accountants. I deal with commercial P&Ls at work quite confidently, but the realms of tax and earnings is beyond me!

What’s the story with Messiah’s cheque?

ArbunneHun · 15/06/2018 17:15

On his FB profile you can still see him holding a cheque for one million dollars that he was given in a big ceremony at last year’s Vida conference.

This was widely shared by his acolytes as a sign of success and everyone naturally thought that he’d earned a $1,000,000 bonus. Well you would, right?

Wrong! Turns out it was a ‘symbolic’ cheque to illustrate the amount that Messiah had earned so far during his Vida career. People started pointing this significant fact out, and he reluctantly began adding a disclaimer to all his posts boasting about ‘receiving a million dollar cheque’.

We called him MillionDollarChequeBot after that. Until he became Messiah after Vida terminated him for ALLEGED bullying and rule-breaking.

BangingOn · 15/06/2018 17:21

Thanks Arbunne. I’d seen the photos of him with the cheque and wondered whether it was a ‘promise of future’ earnings type of thing. He is a pillock but I can’t stop following him, car crash style.

ArbunneHun · 15/06/2018 17:51

Me neither. The fake name, the fake accent, the rented apartment in a big house that made it look like he owned the big house, the fake cheque, the fake pretence that Total Shite Life is for ‘the people’ rather than for lining his own pockets...

BangingOn · 15/06/2018 17:59

Not just the people, the little people Grin

9dartfinish · 15/06/2018 18:03

Companies House is a potential goldmine for discovering the truth about how well hunbot's are actually doing.
I've discovered one hunbot who never filed anything at all since registering as a ltd company and it appears Companies House have dissolved it. But she continues to portray a life of positivity and success on facebook.

Whiterangey · 15/06/2018 18:18

Some people do register a company on companies house and never use it. It's public for a start so it's more visible for taxes and things like that. I'm guessing tax evasion is easier if you are a sole trader.

We are also the go to country for Ponzi's to register and then claim it's a proper company because it's registered when in reality it's pretty meaningless.

There is always a bit of chat about Ponzi's registered in the UK on BehindMLM, Oz has a lot to say on the subject and none of it's good.

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nurgh · 15/06/2018 18:47

My fellow vipers there is a new MLM thread in AUBU which could do with some expert advice.

Spongebobette · 15/06/2018 19:07

LInk please

mistywillow17 · 15/06/2018 19:25

Longtime lurker and HUGE appreciater of these threads. I have a very very persistent Juice Plus bot on my FB and it would have been easy to be taken in if I hadn't been in the know.
Curiosity has finally got the better of me - could someone kind please PM me the name of Yawn, Castle and any other of the key bots?

Norma27 · 15/06/2018 19:52

My Nu Skin bot put a post up last weekend to win one if their new shitty tan products. She is so excited to pick the winner tomorrow. Has been on holiday all week but hasn’t stopped her posting constant crap.
How many entries have there been in that week? 7 ha ha! Lots of comments from other bots saying wow tho. They are totally deluded!

Whiterangey · 15/06/2018 20:14

I think this is the thread on AIBU

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3279074-to-warn-my-relative-about-starting-mlm

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