MLM Bot Watch 36 - Those who think it's ok to tell white lies soon become colourblind

[ReformedBot]

36 Lies to reel you in...

1. They will tell you that you will have time freedom in this business. Two weeks later they will tell you the business won't work unless you do.

When it's a business event they will not accept excuses for you missing it and will set an example by missing their child's first birthday or telling you a story of how they once shit themselves in white trousers on the front row at success day because they were poorly but didn't want to miss it.... You will know quickly that the unspoken rules is 'no excuses on success day's.

Please add your own below!

I suspect she has, Sponge. But 8 years??

@ Sponge, Cozie - yes, eight bloody years. She was so defensive when I first raised concerns that MLM was not going to provide the riches being promised, that I decided to take a period of financial penury on the chin, foolishly thinking that, at the end of the day, the financial bottom line would provide hard evidence more convincing than my reasoning.
For the next four years, she made about a third of a minimum wage job, but worked full time hours (including weekends and evenings). This figure was only arrived at using oddly creative accounting in her tax returns, in which she didn't count expenses for attending endless rallies, success days etc. (Travel & accommodation, ridiculous costumes for "themed" events...) and the not inconsiderable motoring expenses involved in the day-to-day "bizniss" were shifted to my accounts. Of course, the couple of hundred pounds a month spent on pointless products that we would not otherwise use ("substitution" & "being a product of the product", I believe) were not part of the calculations either, nor were all the coffees and meals lavished on "prospects". During this period, she also got increasingly secretive about her finances, and I believe she was running up considerable credit card debts.
Nonetheless, every year at tax return time, her earnings remained stubbornly paltry (even falling, despite "smashing promotions"), and I thought reality would sink in.
Then, her father died, leaving her a sum of money (as I said earlier, she has stubbornly refused to even reveal a ballpark figure). This changed everything, as she could now subsidise her Forever lifestyle by siphoning money into her current account. She therefore could continue kidding herself that FL was viable...
It's really quite amazing how someone quite hard-headed and financially sensible has been turned into a completely irrational spending machine chucking good money after bad (PD books & CD's, online "mindset coaching" from the latest quack "guru", hideous shoddy FL branded clothes, bags, phone cases...).

She's become a 'cash cow' to the organisation. I imagine she has a great deal of praise heaped upon her........

Especially at the beginning, the love-bombing was insane. Stuff like "this rising superstar is going all the way to the top", when she might have sold one lip balm after spending a whole day standing at a stall in a remote corner of a school fayre (paid for) on a Sunday...
When I'd comment that this seemed a bit OTT, I got told I had no understanding of the business and she was disappointed at the lack of support (I'd have been the one driving her to & from the fayre, helping unpack & pack, in between taking the boys to their various football matches, birthday parties etc.)

I'm sorry to dwell on this - I know that it's very raw to you.

You do realise that you're enabling her, don't you?

To the extent that our relationship died when she danced on my mother's grave and it became evident that all the whooping & hollering rallies, coupled with the coaching, the getting up a stupid O'clock to listen to mindset tosh have turned her into an FL automaton, and I have made this clear, I don't think I am enabling her. I have also told her she needs to move out, but I 'm not going to kick her onto the street.

This will sound harsh but I'm struggling to see how you staying together when you feel like this is doing any of your family any good. Aren't your children just going to grow up accepting this as the norm?

It's not great, but neither would forcing her to leave be. Especially not as, despite all else, I believe she is quite vulnerable due to her rationality being impaired.

Twenty

This has been 8 years. Not 8 months - 8 years. You clearly love and care for her and the children. But.....................

8 years in FL, 4 since I realised it was a lost cause. For one and a half of those, I was caring for my father who suffered a catastrophic stroke which took up much of my energy. He died last June, I told her in September that we couldn't carry on & to work out alternative living arrangements, I'm giving her time to do so.

Do you have anyone (friends or family for example) that you can discuss this situation with IRL?

PS - so what is she actually doing?

Both of our families live abroad (Belgium and Sweden). The problem is that no matter who talks to her, any suggestion that FL is less than great is dismissed & she won't engage. It's also very hard to convince other people of quite how far down the rabbit hole one can be dragged...
She is working on it, admitting that her "business is not quite where she wants it to be", so is freelancing at an actual real job "until things pick up again". The irony is that the nature of the job means she works evenings and weekends, so the reality is that the "amazing opportunity" that was going to "secure her financial future while allowing her to be around for her kids" has forced her to take a second job that means she sees very little of them outside breakfast time.
I am hopeful that re-exposure to a real job (she did work in a previous life) and actually earning might help her regain some sense of reality, although it is too late for our relationship.

I wonder if her upline is one of our well known bots? The fact the she hasn’t seen the truth, to me, implies that there is someone very influential above her pushing an “ideal” lifestyle to your wife.
Lots of people get roped in but leave after a year or so when it all becomes apparent but 8 years is truly mind blowing.

It also implies that there was - and, arguably, is - some very deep vulnerability in her. Have you thought about that one, Twenty? (Perhaps identified it, even.)

I only know her immediate upline, very plausible woman, not flash, older (retirement age), former midwife.
Yes, an imaginary ideal lifestyle has been pushed on her, the rallies, and especially the top bots' rags to riches stories are "sooo inspirational". She used to have pretty simple tastes, but seems to have been sucked in by the filtered ideal lives touted by some of the usual suspects.
Quite soon after she got dragged in, she started getting her eyebrows done (!!), as it "looked more business like", and she could treat herself (I think she was also stalking prospecting the stylist)...

@ Cozie, her weakest spot is that she is deeply susceptible to flattery- even of the type that is palpably false to anyone else. This has been preyed on in other instances where she has been scammed. I expect the "I really like your style, you'd be great at this" approach would be the easier way to manipulate her into suspending skepticism.

I was alerted to this coming up so have popped in. I'm not sure anyone is a lost cause they just need the right trigger for that "lightbulb moment". I haven't quite gathered whether you've explicitly told her that the relationship is breaking apart? Have you tried counselling? It might be worth going along without any mention of MLM stuff and just saying you want to try and work things out. You certainly need someone impartial to essentially referee a conversation.

Before anything can officially be broken off (and I know that's a huge step), mediation/counselling will be pretty much insisted on. Can you play to her flattery side to get her to go along?

However, when it comes down to it you have to put yourself and any family first. Maybe she sees no threat as real until it actually happens? Maybe that's the trigger you need to save things? I know it's so hard to watch, I've spent much time trying to convince many people about the pitfalls, but whilst you're in you're basically brainwashed to ignore the negatives. If she's going to always put herself and the "business" before anything else then that's hugely destructive for you. Get some professional help/advice and if you can get her along, brilliant. There is no guarantee she'll listen but it's a positive step.

@ chucking- yes, I have explicitly explained not that the relationship is breaking apart, but that it irretrievably broken. I am absolutely clear in my mind about that, and have made it clear to my OH. As such, I'm not too clear what counselling would achieve.
I would like to think that you are right, and that nobody is a lost cause. I truly hope that she does have either a lightbulb moment or a gradual realisation,especially for her sake going ahead. However, if it does come, it is already too late to change the way I feel about it.
The MLM mindset has exposed and exaggerated to the extreme a number of tendencies that were already the source of (minor & controlled) friction in the relationship; seeing them writ large has convinced me I do not want to go back. If it hadn't been for the MLM, they'd probably have remained minor niggles that are managed in most relationships.

Oh @Twenty... the flattery from someone I know/like was enough to get me to a meeting (“I’ve always admired your style, I think you’d be the perfect fit for a new business venture I’m involved with...”): we’re all susceptible to the right message at the right time. And everything you’ve said about wanting to do what’s best for the children, well that’s another emotional vulnerability that MLMs exploit. It breaks my heart.

Maybe there’s a way back from this for you both. I really hope that there is.

I'm sorry to hear that then but I completely understand. Not for MLM reasons but my relationship broke down and I knew there was no way back. Note that it's still worth getting advice on the way forward (Citizen's Advice or similar) as there may still be some sort of mediation you have to undertake.

Even if she does have that lightbulb moment it sounds as if you're resigned to it all ending and I can't blame you, it sounds tough. But at least you may be able to finish off amicably, the alternative can be a nightmare (hence getting proper advice). Don't overlook getting a bit of professional help just to help yourself get your head clear, sounds like you've put up with alot over the years. There are plenty of support groups on Facebook as well, let me know if you want links and they may help you through all this.

Thanks @chuckingstones, as the shape of the way things are going becomes clearer, I will seek advice as required (as well as recommend she does).
In terms of getting my own head clear, it has been for some time. While the year and a half caring for my father may have delayed this outcome, the long hours watching over him gave me plenty of thinking time...

Twenty

I agree with the need for counselling/mediation. (Although I also like the sound of the support groups mentioned above - maybe even as an initial step.)

The pair of you sound as if you're in a torture chamber and I'm conscious that you have vulnerable children in the mix. If counselling/mediation only helps you both to live productive lives from now on and to parent sensibly, then perhaps it will have achieved something?

8 years is long enough.

Not exactly MLM but the latest (I think - certainly one of the most recent) John oliver last week tonight looks at cryptocurrencies as it's main segment. Dogecoin anyone? (As in the 'doge' memes - I think it was intended as a spoof but people actually bought it)

Twenty, It seems from reading your posts you have a few things on your wish list-

For your wife to understand what she is involved in.
For your wife to start being honest.
For your wife to leave.
For you and your children to start having a life free of the worries caused by MLMs.
For your wife not to lose control of herself and end up losing everything.

I think counselling may be a very sensible first start. You could pitch it as a way of finding a way forward for you to both find a solution and work out a plan on how to proceed.

Your wife will be very very suspicious of your motives. She already sees you as the enemy and as someone who doesn’t support her (even though you clearly have been very supportive). You will probably need to allay her fears that you are after her inheritance. I’m not familiar with divorce proceedings. Would the amount need to be disclosed? Would you be entitled to a chunk? I wonder if this is holding her back from making moves towards a divorce?

Have you read any books on cults? Steve Hassan has written a couple that are good. Reading up on cults might help you to make sense of her behaviour.

Right now I really think you need to involve a third party when trying to move forwards and when talking to her. A counsellor would be the best person I think.