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MLM Bot Watch 17- chat about Utah based tragicomic cultastic racketeering scamalangadingdongs like Forever Living, Ariix, Herbalife, Younique, Juiceplus etc etc etc

971 replies

Toobusytowee · 28/03/2016 21:26

A brief history of the threads so far-

A few people were bemused at their friends' strange personality changes when they joined MLMs.
Eyespying told us they were tragicomic, thought stopping cultic racketeers.
We told him to go away, he was clearly obsessed, and can he go to his own serious thread?
We delved a bit deeper into the issues.
Eyes started creeping back. We told him he was too serious.
We became more horrified at the information being turned up and were sharing links.
Eyes told us aboutMerchants of Deception.
Timeless Vie was set up as a parody about MLMs.[[www.facebook.com/timelessvie
Facebook,]] Twitter, blog, Instagram and YouTube were all used.
People started coming forward, telling of their experiences in MLMs.
We became more horrified.
Bot Watch started on Facebook where links were put up of interest to do with MLMs.
Botwatchblog started and produced factual analysis of the discussions from MN.
MLM members (bots) waded in saying it was all ok. You can earn great money. You just have to work 19 hours a day and not worry about morals.
Bots complained about their names being used. Their lawyers complained to MNHQ so that MN now do not allow us to use bots' names or show screengrabs of their writings even if it is in the public domain.
Blogs and FB posts increased, with the increasing amount of facts and whistleblowers coming forward.
FL lawyer tried to get TV YouTube video banned.
Bots claimed we were bullying them because we were asking them questions they couldn't answer. we were called middle aged women and accused of being drug dealers.
It got a bit nasty so we ate some cheese for a bit and they went away.
Health claims from FL bots now reducing dramatically as a result of pestering from all of us.
We stopped telling Eyes he was too serious. We all started thinking in his language and realised he was right.
Eyes turned out to be very funny and entertained us all.
Sunday Times article produced exposing FL. With a little help from people here.
Lawyers still persisting in trying to ban TV's videos.

Some links of interest-
A factsheet aimed at people considering joining an MLM or who have just done so, to warn them of some facts. tinyurl.com/ha6sgxw

A film of herbalife victims describing what it is like in their MLM-

A film on how to spot a pyramid scheme-

A comedy review of an MLM product- www.youtu.be/4yr_etbfZtQ

OP posts:
Thread gallery
50
BSintolerant · 01/04/2016 23:27

Haha! Ambler

"I'm Brian!"

"No, I'm Brian! And so's my wife!"

BSintolerant · 01/04/2016 23:38

The Life of Brian got banned once, didn't it? Fell foul of blasphemy laws in the UK. It didn't last long.

When John Cleese saw the God Botherers (Catholics, C of E, Methodists, Happy Clappies) standing outside cinemas waving placards he said, "it's the first time they've been united in the last 500 years!" Or words to that effect. Grin

prettyusefulsometimes · 01/04/2016 23:40

To those needing a reminder that these threads are backed by many other blogs and sources of information. For example:

archive.org/details/MerchantsOfDeception

www.facebook.com/timelessvie

<a class="break-all" href="https://timelessvie.wordpress.com/timelessvie.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">timelessvie.wordpress.com/timelessvie.wordpress.com/

botwatchblog.wordpress.com/author/botwatchblog/

If you Google "MLM scam" or any query concerning the legitimacy of MLM companies (there are hundreds) you may ponder as to why the first several pages of your Google search contain lots of pages which say "LOL you are so clever to ask this before taking the opportunity, let me -bore- inform you for -several hours- a few minutes to prove they are all dead legit, especially mine.

Please, please delve further - the truth is out there. MLMs abuse social media and are crap at hiding their tracks.

If you have money worries:
www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en

Unbiased health advice:
www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/evaluatinghealthinformation.html
www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-t-miller/online-medical-information_b_3667454.html

Would like a new career:
nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk/Pages/Home.aspx

Want to achieve some agency in your life:
www.womensequality.org.uk/

BecauseMaui · 01/04/2016 23:40

Darcey :( they really know how to target potentially vulnerable, stressed people don't they?

When DH lost his job through injury, I started avoiding someone local as she did this MonaVie (or something - it looks like wine but apparently it's wonderful... Hmm) stuff and was trying to recruit us. Constantly.

BonjourMinou · 01/04/2016 23:45

Delurking to say I'm #teameyes I've been following these threads for a while and it's been like watching a revolution take place. I've been semi waiting for mumsnet to take a joint anti MLM stance in the same way they are against Nestle but I was stunned to read they'd bowed to pressure and banned eyes.

Please keep these threads going and shining a light on the real goings on of these murky MLMs.

Gimlet1984 · 01/04/2016 23:57

Think it might be best to continue the chat on reddit the amount of censorship from the mods on here is ridiculous. Like eyes said withholding information is a criminal offence and mumsnet wont be able to avoid that if forever get taken to court.

chuckingstones · 01/04/2016 23:58

I'm not sure MN "bowed to pressure", I know some of Eyes' posts were very controversial and I suspect they've been taking advice on what is or isn't allowed. I doubt it's the presence of the bots here that's caused it. I don't know if MN do suspensions as people have suggested. As I've said before we shouldn't necessarily blame MN, they've let these threads run and run (>16500 posts on these MLM threads so far).

There are plenty of voices to speak, plenty more stories to tell, this certainly isn't the end and I suspect Eyes is still communicating his messages in many more places than just here.

throwingpebbles · 01/04/2016 23:58

And lazy man and money is another great resource and ally

Also don't forget twitter peeps can come and find timeless on twitter too mobile.twitter.com/account

chuckingstones · 02/04/2016 00:07

I think throwing means www.twitter.com/timelessvie Grin

lastuseraccount123 · 02/04/2016 00:21

timelessvie.wordpress.com/2016/04/01/stop-being-so-mean-to-us-say-mlm-lawyers-to-mumsnet/

i say we should redouble our efforts. fuck 'em.

also , if any lurker has received any threats from their MLM for leaving/daring to speak out, please do contact us at Timeless Vie. We know this goes on, it would be great to have more evidence to prove it.

Melaw21 · 02/04/2016 00:27

Superb blog post last
#Teamparslaii forever! 😉

DollyTwat · 02/04/2016 00:34

Brilliant post Last

We need to keep up the fight
The trolls just need to be ignored

Twunk · 02/04/2016 00:36

I've been out drinking cocktails none made from green jizz and I just want to say BRING BACK EYES!

But the MLM resistance will continue dammit

BSintolerant · 02/04/2016 00:53

Excellent post last.

The MLM Resistance will not be defeated! The internet is a very big place. Wink

LeanneBattersby · 02/04/2016 00:59

Poor old eyes. I do hope he's allowed back.

FWIW i know a fair bit about copyright, defamation and libel through my profession. If we want to keep these very valuable threads going (and we do, don't we?) it's worth us remembering the following:

If you use someone else's picture without their permission you are breaching their copyright (that includes FB profile pictures) The person who took the picture retains the copyright, no matter how many times it is reproduced without permission.

In order for someone to have been defamed, the following three criteria must be fulfilled:

  1. A statement must have been made that lowers them in the estimation of right thinking people

  2. that statement must be reasonably believed to have been attributed to the person who has been defamed (you don't have to name them. If you say, for example, I think that the famous footballer with four children who played for Manchester United has robbed a bank, you are defaming DB, even if you don't name him)

  3. that the statement must be published to a third party.

If those criteria are fulfilled, that person can sue you for libel. There are, of course, defences for libel. The main one is justification (what was said was true) but it would be up to you to go to court and prove, on the balance of probability, using hard evidence, that what was said was true.

The person who has been defamed could sue you personally, MN the website, and Justine mumsnet.

We might not like libel law, and we might not think it's fair, but it is the law, and it can get hideously expensive to defend a libel case, even if the payout at the end is small.

The screenshot posted above about public figures being exempt is American, and doesn't apply in this country.

I hope these threads continue. I think they're the greatest threat to MLMs this country has seen in a long time, and I think the MLMs know that, hence the threat. I've said this before, but I think MN are being massively brave for letting them stand. They are under no obligation to do so.

LeanneBattersby · 02/04/2016 01:05

Oh, and I think one of the most important things we can do is report advertising breaches to the ASA every, single, time we see them. All of us. The ASA publish their rulings with qualified privilege (they cannot be sued for libel for what they say, and neither can you for repeating the ruling) and MLMs will not want the negative publicity that will follow.

I have also submitted several Freedom of Information requests that also have qualified privilege (again, the public body that issues the information has qualified privilege) and by repeating the statements, you cannot be sued for libel.

stopfaffing · 02/04/2016 08:05

Leanne, thanks for that clarification.

xenu1 · 02/04/2016 08:06

Flumplet posted upthread."Is Mary Kaye a MLM scheme does anyone know? My sister was telling me about it in a really evangelical way..."
Someone replied "yes" and of course I agree. Just a link to www.pinktruth.com - an excellent anti-MLM site, targeting MK, and created by MK victims
(I pm'd Flumplet, as the thread as gone supernova since last night... :()

xenu1 · 02/04/2016 08:16

Leanne +1. MN has done everyone a huge service by hosting these threads and the Timeless VIE team deserve huge respect, As does Eyes (I thought I knew a lot about MLM scams but his website is excellent. I never realised the "purchase-wampum-from-upline-to-get-around-the-Hearts/WeM-stylee-illegal-pure-cash-pyramid-scam" issue before reading eyes' site.

But you have to be careful, and eyes could be reckless. MN are responsible for what is posted here and, IMO, we should try to keep it light. Amused pity, with some anger for manipulative adverts on vulnerable new mums, is my aim. But I hav'nt been personally harmed by MLMs of course...

throwingpebbles · 02/04/2016 08:20

You can also report dodgy medical claims to the MHRA.

MLM Bot Watch 17- chat about Utah based tragicomic cultastic racketeering scamalangadingdongs like Forever Living, Ariix, Herbalife, Younique, Juiceplus etc etc etc
Eebahgumlass · 02/04/2016 08:22

Delurking - followed these threads since the very beginning. Clearly people are getting very rattled. Vive la resistance! #teameyes .
I really hope these threads can continue along with the other efforts.

throwingpebbles · 02/04/2016 08:22

If people find stuff about individuals then instead of posting it here where it will just get removed you could always send it on to timeless or s bot watch
We will make sure it goes to the right places Wink

FLhahaha · 02/04/2016 08:36

Thank you leanne, very helpful. Can I just ask for clarification? Suppose I was to say 'xx has just published a list of names on her Facebook'. Assuming I don't and never have used a code that xx is a particular person, is that ok? And even if I replaced the xx with initials, so that it was identifiable, presumably that fails the first test (of lowering them in estimation) and if for some reason it did fail the first test, there is a truth defence? If they had published such a list, would that be ok?

xenu1 · 02/04/2016 08:38

One more. The action against eyes (and MN, and us all) proves we are having an effect. Well done!. What I expect happened is that an MLM employed a lawyer to read the threads and note any postings that could be construed as divisive or controversial. eyes passim. They then quoted from eyes' site and wrte a letter quoting posts and his site and suggesting that, while they welcome discussion on their wonderful business, this looks like a concerted effort to defame them and their team etc., etc. Not that hard, and MN would have to take notice or incur legal costs. Don't rise to bait, VIEstars! :)

The following may be offtopic, but they have really helped me with legal matters whether libel, disputes or, dare I say it, divorce :)) Dave Touretzky, a critic of $cientology, got a seriously threatening letter from a top lawyer acting for $cn

link 1. The letter www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/NOTs/legal/milgrim-letter.html

link 2., (hilarious IMO) dave's comment on link1. www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/NOTs/legal/milgrim-analysis.html

link 3. dave's official reply to link 1. www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/NOTs/legal/milgrim-reply.txt

:). Lawyers want to wind you up. Be nice, officially, but firm.(?)

FLhahaha · 02/04/2016 08:43

As part of redoubling our efforts, can we put our collective thinking caps on, to discover new ways we can spread the word/stop the deception?

Bearing in mind what cubic I think, has previously said about worker bees vs up lines, whilst reporting to the ASA etc is brilliant and we should do it as much as possible, directly it affects the 'lower' 'business owners', because the more senior ones just seem to recruit. Indirectly, of course, it is fabulous and affects the brand when the ASA calls them out on it, and makes it harder to market generally.

But is there anything (more) we can think of to more directly complain/report/shine a light on either the up lines or the main companies?

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