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MLM BOT WATCH 9 - NOW FEATURING DESPERATE COUNTER PR BY MLMs who don't answer questions- lighthearted chat and posts by Eyes about NuSkin, Forever Living, Ariix, IT Works, and (insert name here)

964 replies

lastuseraccount123 · 23/02/2016 17:38

timelessvie.wordpress.com

facebook.com/timelessvie

facebook.com/liestopper

@Timeless Vie

Note for newbies: "Downline" means people who are the lowest level of the pyramid/MLM scambralamabra.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
Roseformeplease · 24/02/2016 13:17

Why aren't those GTech Air Ram vacuums available in Currys? (just one quick example, based on an advert I've just seen)

They are available in Argos, based on a quick google. So, not sold via a Facebook page or in the gym or school playground.

Why isn't Younique available in ANY shop at all anywhere except from direct sellers? How can this make financial sense for the company unless there is something shady going on?

Patzy85 · 24/02/2016 13:19

What's the initials of our newest Arrix member, I can't for the life of me remember!

I find it amusing that we use the initials of the same handful of big players. Obviously not many six figure earners out there in this business. I doubt the ones we mention are either.

bossbabebot · 24/02/2016 13:20

Defectobot was the one who did the 'I am having to ditch FL and this is the true reason but I really don't say why in this video because it's all a big load of shite isn't it?' video a few weeks ago.

It was done in the car so obvs it was heartfelt... And sincere.... He could've upped the ante and filmed it in an infinity pool like castlebot and eyebrowsbot ..... which would've been classy....

CubicZirconiaBB · 24/02/2016 13:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NatashaBarnBotShingles · 24/02/2016 13:22

Hey pop pickers!
Right I have literally spent 3 hours going thru pages and trying to answer questions, my reply as more than 15000 characters! I know..... Boring! I will have to split it, please hold back on responding until I have posted all answers so they can be read in order.

Cheers guys

NatashaBarnBotShingles · 24/02/2016 13:22

As promised I will work my way through the questions as best I can. Please understand a few things first...

1- I am not an expert on MLM! I can answer questions that I know the answer to, I can't answer every question relating to individuals because my answer would be opinion and not factual therefore inaccurate which I'm sure is your argument here! Inaccurate information!

2- I came on here because I was personally mentioned therefore I felt I had a right to put my view across and explain how I personally run my business and treat my team.
I can't give accurate information on how others do it!

3- I have no problem with being honest about anything but please bare in mind while it would be easy for me to swear, get personal with you all in retaliation etc I choose not to do that and would kindly ask that you show me the same respect. There is no need whatsoever for spiteful remarks and assumptions on my character especially as most of you on here know nothing about me.

4- you continually ask "bots" to come forward yet are completely unaccepting of their answers and choose to still call us victims etc which really begs the question as to why you want to hear from us? It seems purely so that you can take the piss at our expense and throw judgements on our integrity. That is not a debate.... That is bullying.

5- I could argue that as much as you think you are doing some sort of good... You're not! It's an opportunity to drag people down based on what you think and therefore not much different to that of your argument against us.

So questions.....

1- you do NOT have to personally buy 1cc of product. It is a choice! No one shoots you if you don't!! But on the flip side how can we be genuine with our belief in our product if we don't even buy it!!

2- it's expensive?
A £28 bottle of drinking gel keeps me pain free (not a medical claim but my reason for joining and my reason for the genuine belief in what it can do) I won't go into health details for that reason but the product has kept me off medication for almost 2 years! FACT!
My daughter had previously been pumped full of roaccutane (look it up) at 13yrs old it caused her to become extremely depressed and made her eventually self harm, when I started this I found a product cleared her skin condition with no side effect and it cost £15. Again not a medical claim but an explanation as to why I personally love what I do and believe in our product.
Do I think It's expensive? No! I think it's worth every penny because of what it did for US! My opinion that's not to say everyone has the same one but there are many similar stories across the board.

3- Am I trained to lie?
No, I have never been told by my upline or the company to lie, Infact quite the opposite! I have always been told to be honest, be ethical and adhere to company policy. Which I do to the best of my ability. Is everyone trained that way? I can't answer as I don't know! But I do know my team are not coached to lie! Again bare in mind we do have people join that don't listen and do what they want, we don't like that as much as you!!

4- Spamming!
I did this when I first joined like most do. I was literally bursting with belief in these products and wanted everyone to know! Do I regret that? Yes and no! I looked like an MLM nut job but on the flip side it got people talking and spread the word. I also learnt valuable lessons and that in turn helps you become more professional.

5- Trainings/Success days
We have a choice! We do not lose promotions by not attending! These are also tax deductable if you do choose to go!
I have always attended these events and have from the start attended training with the company (different to upline training) that's probably no coincidence that I generally am able to answer customer questions regarding products instead of just selling to anyone and disregarding their needs. I have chosen to buy product and give it as a gift for people I knew would probably benefit so (again my opinion) I've never looked at a sale as "money money money"
When your family or friends try to get you to try it did you ever stop to consider that although they do it in a way that annoys you they are more than likely just genuinely trying to help! A polite "no" or "please stop asking me" is usually suffice.

6- Distancing yourself from friends!
I had an amazing friendship circle before I joined. All of them support me, they saw the huge changes in my health & income and saw how happy I became. Why wouldn't they support??
We're they worried? Probably! Have they all joined? No! Do I still bother with them? Yes!
They have seen my life transform, they are still busting a ball and getting nowhere, they are exhausted so why don't I recruit them??? Because they are happy as they are and that's ok!
We respect each other's career choices, we respect each other's opinions. I am happy for them and they are happy for me. If however they started hate campaigns, derogatory internet slates, kept putting me down etc would I distance myself? Absolutely! You see it's not about MLM... That's not a network marketing thing! If a friend is concerned and voices that I would take it on board but there's a difference between that and making your friend feel stupid, attacked and unsupported! I know one of the users on here is a drug dealer..... They don't get questioned or abused yet I do! Funny old world! They will stay anonymous because they know I would happily rip them apart for having the cheek to judge what I do when they happily take holidays on the tax payer and the profit from selling drugs. Begs the question as to the reason they are here?? They probably have nothing better to do than to spend their days trying to discredit my character because their own is massively flawed! Just my opinion!

NatashaBarnBotShingles · 24/02/2016 13:23

7- Mindset!
I practised positive thinking and law of attraction long before MLM. It had a huge impact on my life and I 100% believe in it because I speak from experience! Again this is not an MLM thing! This is an Oprah Winfrey, Steve jobs, will smith, and any other successful person thing!!!
To become highly successful in anything you will absolutely need to apply certain disciplines to yourself, negative thinking actually brings bad health. The study of neuroplasticity is something I think should be taught in schools!! Again not MLM.... Neuroscience!
As I suffer with a neurological condition I came across this whilst researching what I could do to improve my health in certain ways. I have also spoken to my consultant, who happens to be at the best neurology hospital in the uk, and he has praised my view and attitude on positive thinking and adopting different ways of seeing the world! As far as I'm aware he is neither a Mormon nor an MLM bot!

8- Does it bother me that our CEO apparently doesn't support gay marriage?
No it doesn't and I will tell you why.
I have many gay friends, I support gay marriage. However I am not religious, so therefore it doesn't upset my beliefs in any way.
If you are religious that would clearly go against what you believe and therefore I respect that view and opinion. Catholics don't agree with many things (my stepfather was Irish Catholic!) but would I boycott a company due to the beliefs of the CEO?? If I did I would never buy from most high street stores.
It wasn't that long ago that most of the population were against black people sharing a bus with white people! We move on, we change we evolve we respect others opinions. If you found out your CEO supported fox hunting would you tell him stick his job???? Probably not!
Did you boycott McDonald's after their embarrassing support and funding of the IRA became public years ago?? Probably not!
Does our CEO pay the bonuses regardless of our beliefs?? Yes!

9- Are my downline successful?
Don't assume that every one that joins wants huge income! Are they earning huge incomes? No! Some earn a top up of anything up to £800, some earn more than their previous employment, some earn enough that they have replaced their full time income. Some earn far more than they ever came in for. Some have gained confidence, have a bit more self worth, are happier, have made great friendships etc is that not a good thing?
BUT.... If I judge the success rate on those coming in and getting what they originally wanted then we have only a 4% fail rate. 4%!!!! Not 99!! This is because most people don't want huge income! I know! Mad right! I didn't! I'm successful because I wanted £400 a month and got it! then wanted a full time income... I got that. I then wanted to give my children a nice home .... I got that. That also takes time! If someone in my team has been in for 2 months and not had a six figure income yet do we count that as unsuccessful??? No!
Have people dropped out? Yes! Do I recruit every Tom dick and Harry?? No! For exactly this reason! I don't want disgruntled team members that were never going to do it, leave and tell everyone what an arsehole I am! Although unfortunately there have been a couple! But these people NEVER did anything!! They never spoke to people about the products, they never spoke to anyone about the business, they never tried a product or gained knowledge, they never wanted to learn anything. Who's fault is it then that they made no money??? Mine??
I joined the same way, I made money. Why?? Because I worked hard and gave it time!
Those who come in for a few months, don't do what they need to do to learn or don't apply the basic principles of at least showing the products will not make money!
But surely it's no different to me paying £600 to learn how to be a hairdresser and never becoming Nicky Clarke???? Who's fault?? Mine!
The problem with many people today in general is always trying to blame other people for their problems, take responsibility! What would you like me to do?? Work the business for them? Build their business for them?? I honestly don't understand who else is to blame if someone doesn't build their own business! Some may be unlucky in who recruits them, I understand that not everyone involved in MLM has the same attitude as me and not everyone will be ethical... That's not a reflection on the company the same as a dodgy doctor shouldn't be blamed on the NHS or a Paedophile teacher is the fault of the education system (my daughters school had 4 of those!) who did I blame?? The teacher as I'm 99% sure the school never made that a policy that had to be adhered to!!

10- I asked permission to comment on here?
Are you serious???? None of my upline tell me what to do, if they did I'd still do what I felt was right anyway! I didn't ask the company! I mean honestly some of these comments make you sound obsessed not me!
You have a very distorted view that we are so controlled by the company! We are not! Infact I was more controlled by a private healthcare company when I wasn't allowed to tell people how badly the company was run and how shameful some of the residents were being treated.... Guess what?? I told the manager I was whistle blowing because I stand by my morals...so that's what I did! And I kept my job purely because they actually appreciated my honesty! IRONIC!!
I have always been outspoken and MLM hasn't changed that! I still choose to give an opinion of i feel I wish to do so!
I can assure you that none of the really successful upline are bothered by this thread at all, do you think in 10 years of being in MLM they haven't dealt with this sort of thing before?? Probably??
All these kinds of threads really do is affect the people already not that confident or scared of people's opinions. For the majority it isn't an issue, I only even bothered to read this because my daughter got notified when my name was mentioned!

11- Commercial websites??
I'm unsure as to what you mean by that so not sure what the answer is???? Happy to come back to it.

12- Global rally 1500cc
Yes I qualified, I joined in June 2014. Global rally qualification runs from Jan to Dec so yes that was my first FULL year. 1500 means anyone ending the year on more than 1500cc but less than 2500. (I totes could've done more!) always next year!

13- What do I earn for the hours I work?
I will be honest here, I have never sat down and worked out what I earn on an hourly basis. For 2 reasons, 1 I get a headache doing anything admin based and 2 I don't class much of what I do as work! Do you count having coffee in your own home with someone as work?
I worked all day every day for my first 3 months this was a mixture of calls, laptop based learning, meetings with people, chatting to customers etc so not all hugely demanding physical work...BUT I earned £1500 in my first 3 weeks, in my second month I earned double that but most of that income came from my own retail sales due to many people seeing what the product had done for me and my daughter.
Month 3-6 I worked hard but not as mad as I had a big customer base and most were reordering so I looked after them instead of finding more.
My team had grown to around 20 (including downline) in all at that time and by December 2014 I was earning 3 times my previous full time wage in care (a job that took me away from my children most evenings, weekends and Christmases!!!) I worked while kids were at school and evenings doing MLM! I put that time in by choice. That can be adapted to suit the individual, I always ask team what THEY want not what can they do for me. We then plan around their family and plan what they want to achieve without too much sacrifice where possible but obviously if you want £10k a month in a year then you need to be realistic about the effort and sacrifice that's going to take!
I don't still work like that, I was rubbish with time management and I have watched people do better in less time around a full time job in less hours! Organisation is something I'm not good at.
I now work better and I'm time smart. I do approx 20 hours a week, sometimes less but sometimes more depending on my diary that week. I now earn enough to cover bills, car, home, business expenses and still be able to save quite a chunk and treat ourselves. Without giving away my entire financial situation we live comfortably. So it does pay off long term... It's no different to other businesses in the sense you put a lot of work in for little reward at the start.

14- leaflets, flyers, tablecloths etc
Do I need them?? No! I have business cards and that's it!
It didn't suit me to do pamper parties and events, I hate all that! It's there if you choose to do it that way but equally you are free to work it how you want. I choose to speak to people about products and the business not pretend to be a girly girl having a pamper. I believe I've built my business well because I haven't over complicated it. Many do it differently. My expenses are anything between £100-£400 a month depending on what I choose to spend for e.g if I choose to treat the team to a holiday or not, if I choose to drive a lot that week or work from home. It is within your control and I never tell someone to get into debt. I used my earnings from the business to put back in where I wanted to. My commission would pay for my training etc and I tell the team to make money before spending it wherever possible.

15- What else have I missed??

16- ahh my point to make clear on why I asked u to inbox! I couldn't keep up! I could've answered a question one by one without scrolling back thru numerous comments and pages. My concentration isn't brilliant (neurological health condition remember!) I absolutely assumed the response would be shown on here so nothing to do with hiding it! If I wanted to be sneaky then surely I wouldn't be the ONLY one on here actually using my name! What is that all about?? Being anonymous?? Why can't people just be up front and HONEST!! (That's awkward!) and I don't believe for a minute it's about not upsetting friends at all, it's far more likely to be about how comfortable you can be bitching at others without anyone knowing who you are! The fact I blatantly don't care that you know my name and I'm more than happy to be open about it should really show you more about my character than anything you hear via gossip and trouble making idiots that I have been desperately trying to escape from for the last 20 years!! Believe me when I say there are a few of them on here..... Hi guys!!! waves

17- Do we take money from our downline?
No. If say my recruit earned £100 I would not get £30 of that £100! You earn what you work for. I can out earn my sponsor, my recruit could out earn me if she works harder she gets paid more. The complete opposite of a pyramid scheme I might just add. I have seen many people out earn their sponsor. If you recruit and they go mad and you do nothing.... Guess what? You don't earn from them!

18- Anything else? Please don't ask what the net sales of it works or the % of earnings or failure rate throughout FL have been since 1978 because I'm gonna be honest..... I struggle with my own tax admin! I would have no clue whatsoever about facts and figures throughout the history of the MLM industry! And to make that clear... I'm not avoiding the question! I simply don't know the answer!!

MLM is not perfect by any means but for me personally and for many others it is a better option than any other. That's not to say you are wrong in your opinion but also that neither am I.
You should never argue about religion, politics, football and it seems also MLM!

Based on opinions and personal experience meaning the argument just goes nowhere!

....and breathe!!!!! (Bracing myself for a complex return of polite and adult conversation mixed with abuse from the odd know it all)

...... Tea break!

CubicZirconiaBB · 24/02/2016 13:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CubicZirconiaBB · 24/02/2016 13:30

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throwingpebbles · 24/02/2016 13:37

natasha Natasha Natasha

You STILL haven't answered my question about why FL don't get their products medically licensed if they are sooooooo miraculous!!!! You seem to keep missing that question. How strange.

NatashaBarnBotShingles · 24/02/2016 13:37

I recognise fear! I've felt fear at lots of different stages in my life, I just push through it or quite frankly I'd never do anything! Fear isn't a bad thing, it can push you to do things you never thought you could. Do you think I didn't fear moving home? I didn't fear working for myself? I didn't fear starting a new job? I've felt fear most of my life but I've never let it stop me doing anything. If I fail I look a dick! So what? No one died! I always tell myself what's the worst that can happen? I've lost people I cared about deeply when they were far too young.... Life is short! Do what makes you happy, I could be dead next year! That's my attitude and I'm at peace with that.

FLhahaha · 24/02/2016 13:37

Thank you Natasha. I really am grateful that you are answering our questions and I respect you tons for using your real name. You come across well in the way you write.

Just a bit of clarification:

You said '5- Trainings/Success days
We have a choice! We do not lose promotions by not attending! '

However the FLP handbook says:

  1. Chairman’s Bonus 12.1. (a) Core Requirements for All Levels. (January 1 through December 31). An FBO, after becoming a Recognised Manager, must fulfil ALL of the following requirements either in the Domestic Country, or the Qualifying Country. They cannot be combined from different countries. [[]
  1. The following requirements may be achieved in any Participating Country:

[]
d. Attend and support company sponsored events.

And [Managers are expected to]

26.22. Attend (and be seen in attendance at) all local business briefings, trainings and
Success Express Events. Managers are expected to attend a large majority of other
Company events and to promote Company events to their teams.

So you may not miss a promotion but it seems pretty clear you would jeopardise your Chairman's bonus and your position as a manager if you didn't go?

Or does the FLP Handbook say one thing but it is not really enforced?

Patzy85 · 24/02/2016 13:38

natasha thank you for taking the time to answer the questions.

This is a genuine question and I'm really not trying to trip you up, has recruitment slowed at all over the last year or so? And do you know of people moving in to new MLMs such as Arrix?

I just find it interesting that it seems to have appeared and targeted those with large downlines in existing MLMs.

NatashaBarnBotShingles · 24/02/2016 13:38

I don't know the answer to that! You would have to ask the company that. I'm happy to ask them myself and get back to you with a response. May take a few days

Eyespying · 24/02/2016 13:40

7- Mindset!
'I practised positive thinking and law of attraction long before MLM. It had a huge impact on my life and I 100% believe in it because I speak from experience! Again this is not an MLM thing! This is an Oprah Winfrey, Steve jobs, will smith, and any other successful person thing!!!
To become highly successful in anything you will absolutely need to apply certain disciplines to yourself, negative thinking actually brings bad health. The study of neuroplasticity is something I think should be taught in schools!! Again not MLM.... Neuroscience!
As I suffer with a neurological condition I came across this whilst researching what I could do to improve my health in certain ways. I have also spoken to my consultant, who happens to be at the best neurology hospital in the uk, and he has praised my view and attitude on positive thinking and adopting different ways of seeing the world!'

For the comic book terms, 'mindset,' and 'positive thinking,' read: 'totalistic thought reform program' and 'blind faith.'

The combination a dissimulated pyramid fraud operated in conjunction with a totalistic thought reform program, based on dissociating ill-informed victims from external reality and converting them to an unquestioning ritual belief in financial infinity, is self-evidently, highly-dangerous.

In 1961 (after many years of field-research, interviewing US servicemen held prisoner during the Korean War), Robert Jay Lifton (b. 1926) published, ‘Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism.’ In this standard, medical text-book, Lifton identified 8 ‘themes’ which, if present in any group, indicate that its members are being subjected to a mixture of social, psychological and physical pressures, designed to produce radical changes in their individual beliefs, attitudes and behaviour.

1). ‘Milieu control’ — the attempted control of everything an individual experiences (i.e. sees, hears, reads, writes and expresses). This includes discouraging subjects from contacting friends and relatives outside the group and undermining trust in exterior sources of information; particularly, the independent media.

2). ‘Personal or mystical manipulation’ — charismatic (psychologically dominant) leaders create a separate environment where specific behaviour is required; leading to group members believing that they have been chosen and that they have a special purpose. Normally group members will insist that they have not been coerced into group membership, and that their new way of life and beliefs are the result of a completely free-choice.

3). ‘Demand for purity’ — everything in life becomes either pure or impure, negative or positive, etc. This builds up a sense of shame and guilt. The idea is promoted that there is no alternative method of thinking or middle way, to that promoted by the group or by those outside it. Everything in life is either good or bad and anything is justified provided the group sanctions it as good.

4). ‘Confession’ — personal weaknesses are admitted to, to demonstrate how group membership can transform an individual. Group members often have to rewrite their personal histories and those of their friends and relatives, denigrating their previous lives and relationships. Other techniques include group members writing personal reports on themselves and others. Outsiders are presented as a threat who will only try to return group members to their former incorrect thinking.

5). ‘Sacred science’ — the belief in an inexplicable power system or secret knowledge, derived from a hierarchy who must be copied and who cannot be challenged. Often the group’s leaders claim to be followers of traditional historical figures (particularly, established political, scientific and religious thinkers). Leaders promote the idea that their own teaching will also benefit the entire world, and it should be spread.

6). ‘Loading the language’ — a separate vocabulary used to bond the group together and short-circuit critical thought processes. This can become second nature within the group, and talking to outsiders can become difficult and embarrassing. Derogatory names, or directly racist terms, are often given to outsiders.

7). ‘Doctrine over persons’ — individual members are taught to alter their own view of themselves before they entered the group. Former attitudes and behaviour must then be re-interpreted as worthless, and/or dangerous, using the new values of the group.

8). ‘Dispensing of existence’ — promotion of the belief that outsiders — particularly, those who disagree with the teaching of the group — are inferior and are doomed. Therefore, they can be manipulated, and/or cheated, and/or dispossessed, and/or destroyed. This is justifiable, because outsiders only represent a danger to salvation.

CubicZirconiaBB · 24/02/2016 13:40

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cozietoesie · 24/02/2016 13:42

Commercial websites? That probably refers to the fact that all of the eminent MLMs have websites with shops where product can be sold directly over the Internet. I can only guess that people were wondering where this fitted in to the MLM's 'ethos' and who was assigned (and for what reason) the profits accruing?

There is also an issue with the very large number of items being sold on websites like Amazon which is apparently against MLM rules. I should imagine that people were wondering whether this was actually - albeit unofficially - smiled on by the MLMs, whether they had completely ineffectual lawyers or whether they had such a large number of seemingly disaffected and disloyal distributors that they'd given up trying? Or a combination thereof. Smile

I should imagine that those are some of the points you might like to address.

CubicZirconiaBB · 24/02/2016 13:42

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Melaw21 · 24/02/2016 13:42

Natasha, are you saying that you know someone who is a drug dealer on here and havent reported them
To the relevant authorities? Confused? Also, what does it have to do with all this? What an odd thing to say, also referring to your 13 yr old daughters private medical/mental health issues on here would somewhat appear to moot your point regarding the 'concern around your family details' would it not? But innapropriate? Does she want a whole load of strangers on the net knowing her private business?

throwingpebbles · 24/02/2016 13:43

Surely you have wondered that yourself natasha ?????
I find it hard to believe how unquestioning you are ....

NatashaBarnBotShingles · 24/02/2016 13:43

I think recruitment takes a dip here and there in my own experience. I have an absolute mass of people coming to me one minute and the next month it may be slow. I've seen people jump from company to company thinking the grass is greener but I suppose there's a few that forget this is hard regardless of company. Some companies are even harder if they pay less commissions etc or you have a product that can be saturated for eg once you buy a saucepan you won't need one again next month. So I do think company and product can make a difference but the work still has to be put in as such. I've never heard of Ariix and no idea what they sell or who they are

NatashaBarnBotShingles · 24/02/2016 13:45

These are points I've discussed in order to answer your questions accurately. I wanted you to understand why I back our product and why that is my opinion. Why I take it seriously and why I feel it's not expensive etc. It's not for sympathy etc it's more to explain where my opinion comes from

Lovewineandchocs · 24/02/2016 13:46

bossbabebot
Lol yes that's right 😀 interesting when he started to talk about "cracks appearing". That is very much the official PR video though. A friend of a friend has jumped ship also to sign under him-I will try and hear the real story through her! Grin

NatashaBarnBotShingles · 24/02/2016 13:49

I questioned everything before I joined, my sponsor was a stranger and I was a distrusting sceptic!! So believe me I had a very similar opinion as most of you! I'm also not a sales lover believe it or not! I think retail in general is very manipulative even in tesco! Every company selling something will have a marketing strategy so I honestly don't get angry by that. We all have a choice, we can buy or not buy

NatashaBarnBotShingles · 24/02/2016 13:51

I've never been pushed to do that. I have shown personal struggle and achievements in balance to show a true story of what could be possible. That was my intention anyway. I do see posts that me cringe and the company are trying to clamp down on this. Social media is a great tool when used properly but ridiculously damaging when it's not unfortunately