MLM BOT WATCH 9 - NOW FEATURING DESPERATE COUNTER PR BY MLMs who don't answer questions- lighthearted chat and posts by Eyes about NuSkin, Forever Living, Ariix, IT Works, and (insert name here)

[lastuseraccount123]

timelessvie.wordpress.com

facebook.com/timelessvie

facebook.com/liestopper

@Timeless Vie

Note for newbies: "Downline" means people who are the lowest level of the pyramid/MLM scambralamabra.

pyramidschemealert.org/nu-skin-facing-the-ultimate-whistle-blower/

Gosh it is hard to keep up isn't it! I would like to say something more about information security.

Companies House has recently increased the amount of data freely available for the public to see. If you know the name of the a company, you can go to the website here and type it in. In two clicks you will then see the names and home addresses of the company directors, and you can also see any other companies of which they are directors.

So if you have a public Facebook page, which states the name of your company, then your address is freely available to anyone who wants to look. And if, as is pointed out upthread, your Facebook page announces that you (perhaps as part of a husband and wife team) are going to a success day, then everyone knows your house is going to be unoccupied for a weekend. If you have previously posted pictures which show a wealthy lifestyle than that might make you a target.

This is at the VERY BLAND end of what information can be obtained and to what use it can be put.

I have had team members go to them. And yes my upline has encouraged me to go on many, many occasions before, but my uplines no longer bother to ask me now as they know what I am like. I just missed one recently in London, tickets were £6. Events are just not my thing.

Prospects are sold these MLMs as 'their own business'.

It is NOT their own business. Even the bots who have spoken on this thread have said as much, through the words used. People can resign. People get promoted. People are recruited.

What many may not realise is that people can also be effectively sacked by having their contract terminated. Yes, even the top bots can get the push. It's happened before, when the company wanted to appease the regulators.

Out of interest, do all distributors register formally as companies though? (That carries with it some potentially rather uncomfortable legal obligations and I wondered how many people actually get round to it? )

melaw21 wote: And another about arbonne... [.]
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/andrew-penman-arbonne-looking-people-3052814
Thanks - that's a great link. Pithy and informative.
"By “join us” she means becoming what they call an independent consultant. Which translates as becoming a sales rep without a wage."
and
"The reality is as follows. You’ll struggle to sell the products without samples, which you buy from Arbonne – something the presenters did not say. The basic range of six items in a plastic bag costs £200 [..]. There’s even an £8 charge for the “Product Knowledge Manual”. The result was that Toni’s bill for joining Arbonne came to around £1,500. [..]
I’m a traditionalist and prefer jobs that don’t involve buying stuff from the company I work for – and ones that come with a salary."

For Arbonne read Nuskin, Amway, FL. Ariix...

And now about information that you hold on other people, and that other people hold on you.

It worries me that the numbers of 'downlines' people talk about are so huge. Particularly in the case of Forever, I worry that information on those downlines and their prospects includes for example health conditions etc that is very personal information.

Any type of information you have on other people, someone in your organisation is likely to have on you. And even if you are happy to share everything with the world, many people don't like that.

How do you keep such information secure? Have you checked whether you need to register with the Information Commissioner under the Data Protection act? It isn't just for large businesses, there is no de minimis. If your computer was hacked, or your filing cabinet broken into, would the names, addresses, health details, family details, income details etc of thousands of people become available? Have you received training on Data security? If you think you have a good practice in this area, have you trained your downline to have such good practices?

cozie for FL, at least, distributors have to be individuals. They are not allowed to be a FL distributor through a company. A lot of FL business owners do seem to have set up companies quite recently though - not sure why but a lot of accounts are due in the next 6 months or so so we may find out. But whatever we do find out it will NOT be directly related to the FL business, it will probably be tangential.

vegodoll thx for reply! "tickets were £6." SuccessDay FL tix are £30 BTW but whatever. I hope your downline don't spend too much on the "system". Amway tapes stress over and again how important being "plugged into the system" is - attend every event, read the books, be on the standard order tape program and of course the big pins stress that (its how they make money and keep IBOs mind controlled)

But again, appreciate you responded.

Thank you FL. But - and you'll have to forgive me here if my knowledge is a little dated so feel free to correct me - doesn't that mean that distributors would hold personal liability in the event of things going pear-shaped? I had always thought that this was potentially one where the regulatory authorities got you on the swings or clobbered you on the roundabouts?

Thank you vego, your post was surprisingly informative for it's lack of actual answer. I did some sums based on the info you did give, after converting the currency, dividing by weeks in the year and then by the 'advertised' 10-15 hours a week that would give me an hourly rate of 55 to 82 pence an hour. I am struggling to see how recruting people based on those facts is not exploitation. It would be illegal elsewhere, no wonder getting facts is like getting blood out of a stone.

Yes, I am well aware that the line " plug into the system " is often used in this industry. I plug in via fuze app for conference call (FREE), or zoom app (FREE). Anything I don't deem worthy of paying for, I don't. But I really cant control whether my team members decide to plan a " trip to London for the event and make a weekend of it ". Who am I to say they shouldn't go? The one I just missed looked like a great social opportunity, but I am an introvert, and too much fake social interaction is exhausting and I am tired already.

But don't worry LMGTFY most people in mlms don't really want to make more than pin money, they are there for the friendships remember!

...fake social interaction...?

What was the earnings you calculated that on LM, 600 dollars a year?

cozie yes - I suppose it depends on what 'going pear-shaped' means.

For example, insurance (extracts from FL handbook below) - FL has insurance for the product, so if glass was found in a product that would be the company's liability. BUT in the event of false advertising, for example, or a fine for breaking Data Protection Law, or an accident happening anywhere where they were conducting their business - they would be on the hook. As you can see from the extract below, it may also invalidate their driving insurance not to have 'business use' insurance.

20.16 The Company has Product Liability Insurance which indemnifies it against the
unlikely event of faulty products reaching the customer and causing illness or other
adverse reactions following consumption or use.

20.17. An FBO has a duty of care not to make claims, suggest applications or dispense
advice (medical or otherwise) for which they are not competent or authorised to do. The
Company cannot accept liability for situations in which an FBO has made claims for the
efficacy of products outside the statements published in customer literature printed by
the Company (see section 18, Retailing products to customers).
20.18. All FBOs are responsible for ensuring that any vehicle used by them in the course
of their business is sufficiently covered by their motor insurance policy. The Company
cannot be held responsible for FBOs invalidating the conditions of their motor insurance
policies by using their private vehicles to conduct their business.

25.8. Any FBO using advertising that has not been approved in writing by the Company
will bear sole liability for any prosecution arising from their advertising.

Goodness. I do hope that all those distributors driving around to meet people have read that bit about the motor insurance.

Morning #parslaiipussies.

Just popping in to say how fascinating these threads have been, especially over half-term but now, the time has come, to return to my J.O.B.

Fear not though, come 4.30pm every day, my time is my own again to spend as I wish on MN with my family..... no team training in PJs, no presentations in the local Beefeater, no business start-up parties, no flooding fb with motivational quotes.

And I get every weekend off and I'm paid more than 55-82p per hour .

pink
Hi there. Sorry I know it's totally confusing re the percentages. As best I can, I'll explain. Say there is an upline who is a manager-they will get 48% commission on their sales. An assistant manager will get 43% commission, a supervisor gets 38% and an assistant supervisor 35%. So the upline manager will get the difference between their commission rate and any below for any sales by their downline. If a manager has, say, 2 assistant managers, 5 supervisors and 10 assistant supervisors in their team all selling around £500 worth of products (retail price) each the manager will get 5% on the assistant managers' sales, 10% on the supervisors' sales and 13% on the assistant supervisors' sales. Those percentages are worked out on the retail price minus VAT (so £400 in this case). It's not that downlines are paying money upline-Forever is paying the upline said a percentage of their downlines' sales, meaning uplines get commission on the sales of their downline as well as their own. That's probably as clear as mud also! 😀

Place marking and trying to catch up! Hi all this is getting interesting!

I'm not calling you out on this Vego, but I fully agree with the way you put it. It is fake social interaction. Friendships solely based on business.

As highlighted many times before, #foreverfriends drop you like a hot potato the moment you leave.

I feel it is that social interaction that some people are desperate for though. Which is quite sad, really.

Morning Norbert look forward to seeing you back here later! Also Hi Crazycat good to see you! 👋👋

Patzy85 I have never been one for work do's either. I guess, I am just odd like that. I can't get my head round watching my boss swing a bra around his head on the dance floor, get fruity with the colleagues then try and tell me what to do on a Monday. This may or may not have been a previous experience of mine

That's exactly what's happened to my Forever/now Ariix bot. The friends she made, including her team leader, have completely dropped her now she's jumped ship. A few weeks ago they were all #besties and now they don't even speak. They'd been friends for years before they all got involved with MLM's as well - it's very destructive.

Yes vego, I used all the information I had to go on - the realistic expected earning and the hours per week that the recruitment posts state you should work. Now I am aware that you earn more however you are working 15 hours a day not a week! I am happy to recalculate based on whatever information is provided, however at the moment it does look like exploitation, please set me straight.