MLM bot watch - Continued discussion of the network marketing companies Forever Living, Herbal Life, Juice Plus etc as a pyramid scheme or scam

[CheekySmile]

Still continuing the discussion of the various network marketing schemes or multi-level marketing schemes (MLMs) that people we know are involved in.

If you have an MLM bot of your own then join us and share their claims and content.

Or if you are researching a company before signing up to be a network marketer please take a look at the previous threads here and here and also this thread which delves deeper into the workings of MLMs.

And don't forget our very own MN MLM Timeless Vie!
www.facebook.com/timelessvie
www.twitter.com/timelessvie
www.timelessvie.wordpress.com

gimlet The 'you're only working to make your boss rich' makes me roll my eyes too.

They are doing exactly the same, but I remember reading a thread elsewhere where a not came back with 'the up line doesn't take a cut of your pay, they are paid a reward' (or to that effect) They really can't see that them at the bottom are funding those at the top - and that is before you get onto all the other things they pay into and for.

Haven't read the full thread yet but I have a question. Is Synergy a MLM scheme? I've had an invitation to a "party".

Well if you google Synergy and MLM you get this

I am a qualified medical herbalist. My degree took 5 years to complete and covers much of the same early years as a 'standard' medical degree. I can see that many of the herbal based products have constituents which may be claimed to have certain effects, but they are hugely over egging the strength and ability, and not taking things like bioavailability or actual effects in a living body, rather than a test tube, into consideration.
I also do not understand how they are getting away with claiming that anything herbal can treat or cure anything - I know that the most that can legally be claimed is that a herbal based product has a 'traditional use' in certain conditions, and has to have the THR registered mark.
many herbal products can only be prescribed by a qualified practitioner too.
www.nhs.uk/Conditions/herbal-medicines/Pages/Introduction.aspx
www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-for-a-traditional-herbal-registration-thr

are they bypassing the laws by claiming that these are dietary supplements, and if so then is there a legal basis in challenging the treatment and claims made are medicinal rather than dietry?

Obviously though many of these schemes it matters not one jot what the actual product is - although moving into high value 'lifestyle' products or even concepts (as with some of the life coaching stuff) certainly attracts a particular type of person more than many of the products sold by the original Amway team

Yes if you ask me they are breaking laws. It should be challlenged all the way. There are some very worrying incidents out there that have led to hospital admissions. Such as prescribing bee pollen to people who are allergic to bee stings. Not knowing what the products contain, then 'prescribing' these products to people who have allergies to the ingredients. My friend is also a medicinal herbalist and I know the care she takes as she does a lot alongside her clients NHS doctors.

NettleTea The original 'MLM' racketeers worked out that if you make no specific medical claims on the packaging, or in the 'MLM' front company's own advertising, then you can get away with saying almost anything, by pretending that the company itself forbids all lies, but that the company officers cannot be expected to police all their contractees.

When put under severe pressure, 'MLM' front companies have excommunicated shills caught lying about botheh the miraculous power of the wampum and of the income opportunity, but only to prevent deeper investigations.

'Herbalife' was the subject of a US Senate enquiry, and was taken to court in California, more than 30 years ago. The company was ordered (on pain of closure) to stop making false (and potentially lethal) medical claims about its wampum products and to stop its agents from making false (and potentially lethal) medical claims.

Some of the many lies regularly-told by 'Herbalife' adherents are truly outrageous, and they have been widely-filmed and recorded.

nypost.com/2014/12/11/herbalife-still-making-false-claims-ackman-video/

Yet, no reason has ever been put forward by the authorities to explain why the outstanding California Court order against 'Herbalife,' has never been enforced.

www.factsaboutherbalife.com/harmful-promises/

Eyespying has made a lovely apology - thank you. I think we all get carried away when it is something we know a lot about, and are passionate about.

So, at the risk of looking flighty......I am back. Thanks to those who made me feel like I wasn't just being huffy.

I once went to a talk on cults (years ago) given by a mother and son. He had been sucked in while at Durham University and she had paid £££ to have him kidnapped and "deprogrammed". What sticks in my mind most about it was how he was considered to be a suitable target precisely because he was intelligent. His intellect meant that as long as they could answer questions to his satisfaction, he would be sucked in.

Perhaps this is why so many people do not investigate the schemes they join as much as they should. Their brains lead them to investigate and they are given answers. Those with less intellect might not try in the first place because their might assume that "running a business" is not something they could manage. Certainly my own two bots are both clever and able women with large friendship groups and good self-esteem.

sminkypink - 'FLP' is one of agroup of 'Mormon' controlled MLM rackets which have been effectively above the law in the USA, but particularly in Utah.

In this linked video, you can watch the former Attorney General of Utah, Mark Shurtleff, committing fraud for the USANA racketeers (whilst still in office). He even threatens that anyone trying to file a complaint against 'USANA' in Utah, will be ignored.

Shurtleff is currently facing charges of corruption unrelated to 'MLM,' but related to his connection with a 'businessman' facing multiple fraud charges.

www.deseretnews.com/article/865631615/Ex-AG-Mark-Shurtleff-pleads-not-guilty-to-public-corruption-charges.html?pg=all

rose I'm glad you're back and eyespy that was well handled.

rose what you have just said there might tie with my thoughts on cults. I'm in law so I'm used to complexity and not really understanding it all, but understanding enough to know when satisfied. I think I was ripe for picking by Arbonne because of my legal training (and vulnerability at that time in my life). Some think intelligence and training should be a shield against MLMs but I believe these advantages can count against an individual faced with a cult.

So... lawyers, many police officers and so on may find it hard to believe something so cynical and basically unlawful can hide in plain sight. The breezy approach combined with the unfathomable complexity of the promotion/ remuneration structure lends legitimacy. Add in some glossy brochures and glossy smiles and I think most are capable of being fooled at least initially.

This is one of the reasons why I think taking the piss on social media is a great idea - if intelligence isn't enough to keep people away, hopefully good old peer pressure might be.

Skibot is going to a vision day tomorrow.

#notspendingtimewithfamily

Why do they think it is so great to be going to work places on a Saturday? I'd be really annoyed and unhappy if my boss kept suggesting compulsory optional training days on a Saturday.

Thanks driech for the info doh I could have easily googled myself. I've politely declined the invitation.

I detest "parties" where one is made to feel obligated to buy stuff...and even worse start a faux business of their own. Grrrr.

Little Miss, I know bots that spend Saturday's and Sunday's doing training sessions with their manager. One Sunday they were there from 10 in the morning till 10 at night posting smiling, feeling excited Facebook selfies, sat together on laptops 'working' or in this case building their who do I know lists.

It's mad. After being at work all week the last thing on my mind would be to spend the weekend doing more work but the bots don't see it like that at all, they genuinely think they are building a business by drinking prosecco and trawling through Facebook to see who they can signup. I believe this is due to the manipulation which they undergo. They think the team they have joined are their friends and if you try to query why they are always working at the weekend you just get shot down because your being negative. I guess if they are failing to bring in new recruits the manager panics because they only see the lost earnings and try to rectify it as quickly as possible.

I have a meeting with a family bot Monday....she may pitch it to me. Shall I go undercover?!? Xxx

Gimlet Maybe that is part of it, they just see it as spending time with friends, and don't see that it is time away from the children which is the thing they preach so strongly about.

Maybe we need a meme along the lines of their 'mummy don't go to work today' but instead 'mummy don't go to another success day today' It needs a school aged child to make an impact.

Its a relentless game of keepy uppy. That you can 'will' your business to a relative, no. You will the game of keepy uppy to them. In theory. Not that anyone is gonna have a business by the time they are about to cark it.

The only thing I would say Rude is if you agree to join or buy anything and then renege it can cause the bot great distress. If you care about the person I'd tread carefully.

In regards to the business being willable it's something they all seem to enjoy mentioning what they don't tell you is the child has to be 18 or over when the parent is deceased otherwise its lost. They also have to continue the scheme of recruiting or no payment is given.

I think if we can build a list of hard facts it will certainly help bring awareness to the dangers of this company. The fact it's owned by a Mormon who has donated money against gay marriage should give people reason to think. I certainly wouldn't want to work under the umbrella of a prejudice nut job.

This video makes him seem like he's on drugs.

Found the best 'business mentor' name yet. Go look for 'fairytale lifestyle' business mentor.
How apt seeing as they are telling fairytales.

Gimlet1984

Rex Maughan is listed as the 368th richest man in the world with $600 millions. He will be 80 this year.

Rex's lad, Gregg, is already running the family racket.

Ooh I can join in now! I've got an avid "Thriver" (well, two of them now!) and everything is #-tastic on my facebook feed at the moment. Some of the posts are hilarious.

a few things. i'm grumpy.

*I really don't think it matters what fucking words we use to describe MLMs, because we're not in a court of law nor are we pretending to be experts. Bot watching is about taking the piss and building peer pressure, nothing more. Again, journalists, law courts, lawyers, rich people etc have had very little effect on MLMs over the past 40 decades so, WHATEVS. IMO, that proves their approach has been largely useless.

*I agree with lazy and cheeky that i want to keep this thread light-hearted. if necessary, we can always bugger off and start another thread and let the analysts stay here and analyse if they prefer. it's all good. i just don't want to read it and I know I'm not alone. it bores the tits off me, frankly and gets us no where, see point one above.

*Note: Scientology, another cult, has taken down the US IRA and managed to hide in plain sight as a religion - it took anonymous, a bunch of kids in their parent's basements with coding skills to take them on and really start to take them down. NOT the government, NOT the law, NOT the elites. Kids. With computers.

*General plea: if you have a great idea, feel free to write it up. Feel free to search up the evidence to back it up. Screenshot etc. I'm happy to post whatever on the blog and same i'm sure for FB and here.

*if you're new, please read what's already been written. A lot of these questions have already been discussed and/or tackled on the blog FB etc. Also, the blog has links on the left side to many many other blogs about MLMs including Eyes'. Thanks.

*I hate those MLM fuckers.

that is all.

welcome Statistically! feel free to share the laughs with us :)

I stumbled across an amusing background picture for an FLbot. She hasn't chosen very well. She can't see the 'lie'! And she's stolen the image. There's a watermark on it.

Just been looking at FL's lavender oil. One site was saying £30, is that right?

H&B look to be about £5/6. Does their lavender have some time extra magical powers? The products are just extortionate. Seriously how does anyone outside FL see these prices and pay them. Other than the odd pity/guilt purchase. And then you would go for the lip balm looking at you mum