Debt mutual support thread number 6 ....... start the new year with a clear purpose and keep moving forwards even by tiny steps

[TalkinPeace]

This thread follows on from the last five threads in the series, the most recent of which is here.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters/2193736-Debt-mutual-support-thread-number-5-the-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-is-NOT-an-oncoming-train?

We live in a society that makes it horribly easy to get into debt but makes it incredibly hard to admit you have a problem and even harder to get out of debt.
The posters on threads, new and experienced, are here to help people get to where they want to be.

I am not in debt, any more.
Here is a link to some spreadsheets that might help
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters/1987219-SPREADSHEETS-for-Debt-Control-Budgeting-Mortgages-etc

and lots of people use this
YouNeedABudget

The important things to remember are

• yesterday is as past as the Crimean War

( we will not judge how you got into debt, but we will support you on the way out )

• this is an anonymous forum

( we will not tell your employer, family or friends of the reality of your numbers and we are here day and night )

• this thread is about supporting people through the huge mindset changes needed to come out of debt

( feel free to offload all of the feelings that drive you to want to spend, that make it hard to save and that generally make life crap at times, including getting those closest to you to recognise the changes needed )

Join in, bare your soul and come out the other end.
Its worth it.
You are worth it
The long term results for you, your partner, your children, and your friends and family are worth it.

The virtual savings account is a fab idea - I have 10K available through a CC and overdraft that I don't use. I've often thought about cancelling them but I think I will need them as my emergency fund until I've repaid all my debt and got savings behind me. As long as I have access to funds that's all that matters - and a virtual savings account is probably the most cost effective way to do that.

Yes, good point on the virtual savings buffer. I have a 0% on purchases for 18 months credit card which I will use instead (well, not use but it'll be there for genuine emergencies).

Virtual savings is a great idea tip!
I have started doing coin sweeps ;)
Wrt of our relative..hopefully she will be around for a lot longer :) but she is unhappy and I think now actually depressed and it saddens me :(

I'm going to make a point of saving all my coins. I have to spend some cash for food and stuff during my work week (long hours, etc) so I'm going to allocate myself a certain allowance for that and then save the coins. When the coins reach the weekly allowance, that week's allowance will go to a CC payment and I'll use just coins for my pocket money.

I was due to start emergency fund this months pay..starting to save £50 per month. Am I better putting this againts my highest interest card then?

Unbelieveable we would still have access to borrowing if the TV broke - as DH always worries about this what woud we do....god help him if his mac goes may as well chope his balls off

This article really helped me re savings etc.... www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/pay-off-debts

Ok I'm going to be a lone voice here but here goes....

I follow Dave Ramseys plan. Before paying off debt he recommends a baby emergency fund of £1k before attacking debt. It's much more to do with the psychology of money than the maths.

If the washing machine breaks then you don't need to borrow money again. That's the crux of it. We have loads of 0% purchase offers, but we have made a decision never to borrow money again. This means saving for what we need or going without.

There is loads more to his plan, and there's much I don't agree with. However the emergency fund does make sense to me.

Rather than putting £50 a month away for 20 months, he'd recommend selling stuff and paying off minimum balances and get it sorted quickly before attacking the debts.

His way is much les about the maths, and much more about the psychology. I find him strangely addictive.

Screenclean
Did Dave Ramsay write his plan before or after interest rates on savings collapsed to zero?
Just that paying out 20% to earn 0.01% seems madness to me.

Richard
Yes, my savings account was my mortgage overpayment fund - I knew how much I had "saved" but was getting interest at the saved rate on my mortgage.

andsmile second hand LED tellies from the pawn shop are £30 - he'd live.

FWIW I've kept £100 cash from our Christmas money and have stashed it as our emergency fund. It's not much in the scheme of things, but gives me a little piece of mind knowing I have it if something unexpected crops up. We are now in the position that we have to use credit cards to get by so to me it feels like a bit of security somehow.

I think he wrote his plan 20 odd years ago. It's nothing to do with earNing interest on the emergency fund.

Mathematically I can see both sides of the argument. Chuck everything at the debt because of interest rates. However, what if the washing machine breaks and you have to use a cc with an interest rate of 20%? Or one that starts off low then rises. It become more of a problem then.

I think the crux of it is to make a very quick emergency fund by taking on more work or having a garage sale or something. Once you have it there you feel much stronger in knowing that you're not one step away from adding to the debt

screenclean
thing is I never pay interest on my credit card - my monthly bill is always around £3000 - to £4000
but I use the card as a cashflow management tool and pay it off in full every month

so if the washing machine did break, you put the cost on the nearest available card and spend the next three weeks moving the money around to pay the card off before interest kicks in IYSWIM

Yes you would, but you're not in debt.

The point is that if you're in debt then you're unlikely to pay it off in full, thus incurring more interest than if you'd had it set aside.

Exactly: the people who have the discipline and whatall to properly use lines of credit vs a savings fund are not usually the people who get into credit card debt. Dave Ramsey's plan is about changing attitudes towards money entirely.

screen / fabulassie
I was in debt for 15 years.
I had maxed out credit cards for 5 years.
I know about living beyond my means.
I sold a house and every single penny of profit went to clearing debts. I was left with nothing.

Thing is that lots of you now have 0% cards and are getting better at lowering the balances
for those people, the virtual savings account may make the real one come about sooner.

The point is that if you're in debt then you're unlikely to pay it off in full, thus incurring more interest than if you'd had it set aside.

I don't get the logic of that at all.

If you have debt you're paying interest on it. Having a 'safety net' means you are paying interest on that amount anyway by virtue of the fact you are paying interest on the amount you could have paid off your debt.

I can see a certain logic in the psychological thought behind it but mathematically, it doesn't make sense.

No, it doesn't make mathematical sense. The system is meant to help address emotional attitudes towards money so that the person can make permanent changes in their lives.

Either way works - we're doing the "virtual savings" with our lines of credit - but Ramsey's method has helped people, too. At the end of the day (well, year or two) the difference in money isn't necessarily that huge but it may be what they need to help with a new attitude towards money.

No it doesn't make sense mathematically. Agreed.

I'm still happy to follow this plan though. It's all about the psychology in this house

Well Im gonna put it against card.

Our psychology is learning to tell ourselves and each other NO - we cannot afford. We have been under the illusion that as our income has tripled in the last five years we 'have money'. But no you don't have money if you spend it like Elton John.

I need to write this down somewhere and here seems as good a place as any... particularly as I suspect a lot of it is stress money fuelled. I've just had a huge row with dh and I need to vent. Several things... He has the most crippling health anxiety (always has done) and has been back and forward to the gp several times this month having test after test convinced he has cancer. He doesn't have cancer. He has ibs, bad ibs and I know it's awful and I feel sorry for him I really do. But it's not cancer - so far he's had 3 blood tests, 2 stool tests and a rectal exam and several urine tests. All completely normal. He still thinks he has cancer. There is nothing I can say to persuade him otherwise. Coupled with this is a massive fear of being sick - to the point he will sit up crying half the night worried he will be sick so he won't take any medication for anything in case they make him sick. The gp gives him tablets for the ibs, or antibiotics and he won't take them. At all. He won't take anti anxiety meds or even ironically anti sickness meds. So we are just stuck in this cycle of misery re his anxiety and health. He won't go to counselling.

The problem is that I have chronic health problems myself, severe hypothyroidism and a pituitary tumour for which I take medication and I just can't keep my empathy levels up when he is practically writing himself off as dying and I have to take long term antibiotics and meds every day just to stay well. I don't know if I'm being clear but I think the problem is I have a real serious threat that either my tumour could grow or I could be very seriously ill and I try to remain upbeat and yet he has had every single test come back clear and he is still sinking into a depression about it. And yet I hate myself for feeling so angry about it because it's not his fault he is so anxious about it. I just feel at the end of my tether support wise.

Plus we then had a row because his mum who keeps taking everyone off Facebook every single time they have a row added me again and I didn't want to add her again. I know how petty this sounds but the whole thing is so ridiculous, she shows very strong favouritism to the rest of the family apart from dh and I don't see why I should have to add her just basically so she can have a nose. But dh practically said I have to otherwise it makes things awkward and I can see that but I feel like I've been bullied into it! And I really don't like having any family on there anyway! I like to keep it very personal - I only have 25 close friends on there and I feel inhibited having his mum etc on there. If I block them they will know though. They will ask someone I don't know to check. It's all stupid and i'm so angry.

I seem to spend every day being angry at the moment. I feel like my life is not my own and I am living it for everyone else.

Fairylea

Re FB easy - either come off altogether and make an excuse to DH or just say you havng a break from it. Or stay on and chat to your mates. Only make your posts visible to certain people - you can select or exclude.

I have lived with someone with full blown anxiety that was generalised and could change from one thing to the next. He could do very little socially. We did not do much at all. So I do understand how limiting this can be - I found it really tried my patience. I just wanted to shout just bloody well do it you'll be fine. Of course I didnt and I knew better. It is hard, anxiety gets uner your skin its like your brain turns on you and tells you all this crap and you believe this is who you are..if that makes any sense.

My DH does not have anxiety but is very much a worrier - he gets on the health worry wagon (not to the point your DH is mind). His parents died of cancer and he has these 'scares'. He is aware but still likes to get things checked. Im guessing your DH has it like this but more extreme. By DH has 'had' stomach cancer (pg with DS1) and lung cancer more recent. He is always checking his moles etc one started to hurt last week after just chatting about it. He too has had tests done at times.

Im sorry to hear about your health issues - you must be incredibly strong to try to remain upbeat, and good for you. This is just a thought but do you think our DH is worrying for you, is this what they mean when they say co-dependant. It's like he has took ownership of your health concerns. If that makes sense. The opposite of projection? I hope Im not patronising when I suggest the following as Ive never been in your situation but understand the anxiety thing a little:

A home visit by the community mental health nurse
Enlisting any help from a suitable friend or relative
Conacting MIND - having chat see if there is anything they can do?
Would he speak to samaritans - just so he has somewhere to vent thats not on you?
Could you put in writing your concerns to your/his GP to try and get support for some form of intervention
Are you able to have a break away with maybe just the littlest one?
Are you getting support for your conditions through any community groups or online at least?

I think there are a lot of 'needs' that should be looked at - you need support. If he will not go to counselling I think you should try to go as this is a lot for you to deal with too.

Much love and wishes x

Fairy....Check.out thrive on Amazon for the emetophobia
It helps.
If he won't take meds then that is an issue....
I'm so sorry, what a worry for you
I refuse.to use fb
It causes such unhappiness and trauma.

Thank you andsmile and Baddz. I think in my rage induced mist I had forgotten about the ability to limit who sees which posts on Facebook so thank you for reminding me. I feel so embarrassed getting so worked up about bloody Facebook. It's ridiculous. I think it's just that most of the friends I have on there are people I've met through sites like this and due to my social anxiety I don't really have many other friends so it's my only change to connect with people and have a bit of a rant sometimes and I've known them for years and enjoy seeing their photos and sharing mine. When I have to add dhs family on there it just feels like I'm being forced to share part of myself with them when really I don't want to have anything to do with them. But thank goodness for the sharing limit function and I will definitely use that!

Thank you very much for the ideas and support re dh. Anxiety is such an evil thing. So sorry your dh also suffers from it andsmile. It's very hard to be on the other side of it trying to support someone. We always end up in a loop because I get exasperated and say to dh well go to a and E then, let them check you out and he then takes this to mean I think there is something seriously wrong with him! And it makes it worse! I am worn out with it.

We are not really speaking to each other today. Since christmas it's all gone a bit pear shaped really and there's an awful atmosphere.

On the money side of things. ... because of overdraft charges I have to take £20 out of this week's budget to accommodate them so my weekly budget this week is £100. I spent £30 in the supermarket this morning. But that's the most expensive shop I should have to do this week.

Doing my best. ....!