Puddytats - A summary of the last 18 months of hell (this will be long and i hope will answer akll questions)

[puddytats]

Dear all

I have decided to start a new thread on this and run thro everything from the beginning, if you get to the end then thankyou for reading and well done. If you have any questions please ask, i will answer as fully as I am able considering i do not, and will never know the full facts.

Here goes...

On the 12 May 2005 DD was born. On the 13th June DH returned to work after paternity leave. He got to work as usual at 9.30ish and was met in the lobby by head of HR and immediatly taken into the boardroom. He was told that discrepancies had appearded on a firm he was working on but this was not a disiplinary, simply a meeting to establish facts. DH was shocked and stunned. He was asked variuos questions including whether he knew what was going on. He said he had no idea. He was then suspended on full pay while further investigations took place. He returned home and we tried to piece together what had happened.
Records at work show that a ficticious member was made up on a real client and that DH did work on this client, including the issuing of a cheque. His computer initials were over everything. Work decided that DH was at fault at dismissed his.
As this was taking place the police also knocked on our door. DH was arrested and all paperwork relating to financial records were taken away - including all the work we had done ourselves. It transpired that 3 cheques 'passed' thrioough our bank account - one in joint bank and 2 in dh sole account. DH was adviced to no comment throughout the interview, which he did. Because of this and because one of the cheques was in joint account the police arrested me.
Names on the cheques had been changed after they were signed by the partners at DH work, we know this because there are photocopiers of the cheques before signiture and from the bank after cashing. They had been changed to either our current surname or my maiden name. The police handwriting expert said it was likely to be DH handwriting. A certified copy of our marriage certificate was also provided with the one in my maiden name.
A little of the money was moved round our variuos accounts and the rest was taken out one way or another. It would seem that everything other than the initial paying in and one cheque withdrawel was done over the internet. That money as yet has not been traced.
DH and i were cept on police bail for over a year while they completed their investigations. During this time we were powerless to do anything, I attempted to committ suicide due to the stress and we have reached lows you can not imagine.
After a hellish year i was released without charge. DH was charged on 10 counts. 3 of obtaining property by deception, 3 of fraud (can't remember exact terminology) and 1 of forgery (a letter apparently)
We have already paid over £20,000 in legal fees and if we had decided to fight the case would be looking at at leat £100,000 more including solicitors, Queens counsel, computer experts, forensic accountants, private investigators etc. At the moment DH mother in paying for us to survive - although i have now got a job, and DH father in paying legal fees. We cannot live off others forever.
If we fight it we could lose everything. We have 2 children and a need to keep a roof over their heads, they have been through so much in their very young lives that keeping a familiar home is vitsl to their stability.
We could fight it to the bitter end and have the full support of friends and family who believe us and know we have been set up. Our morals say fight but we have learnt over the past year that justice is not fair, about who is guilty or innocent but who can prove what and who can afford to prove what.
We do not want the children to remember daddy being away, we do not want to be apart at all so are trying to limit damage. We know dh is innocent and now have to ignore justice and look to what affect a lengthy trail could have on the family, the stress, tension cost etc has had to be weighed up against what could be gained or lost. We will win in the end because we have eachother.

If you have got this far then well done and thankyou

I was not going to post again, but it is like a sore tooth, you keep niggling at it even though you know the pain will get worse.

The total amount we are looking at is about £65000. We never noticed because we were aweful at money and that sort of stuff. I left it all up to dh for various reasons, he checked his pay went in, knew what the bills were and as long as all was normal at the time he checked was happy. We never went through the statements each month ticking them off. Just didn't feel the need.
Someone did obtain a copy of our marriage cert. We have beeen told this but cannot be told where it was sent without a court order and they only keep records for 2 years anyway.
One of the cheques was paid in over the counter but lloyds only keep 6 months worth of cctv.
DH was given a case to work on. The file has gone missing, all that is left points the finger completly to him, even down to the fake address being almost identical to ours. Why would he do that. All that is left points to him so much he might as well go around with a big sign round his neck saying I DID IT.
Everything leads back to him. BUT he did not do it.
Those of you on here calling him liars. DO you know him or me? Have you been in this sort of situation? What sort of experience do you have to judge him or me?
This time next year he could be out and we could be beginning our lives again. Or he could just be starting a longer sentance.
We have listened to all support, we have acted on some.
I believe in freedom of speech and accept that people are allowed to have and express different views.
What a lot of you are proving is how futile it is to fight and how innocence until proven guilty is not true. You have branded him guilty have you not, on simply the small bit of information i have been able to give on here.
Thankyou

Puddytats, I am so sorry that you are going through this but maybe people are just wondering if you are getting the best legal advice (well I am anyway). For example, why haven't the sols. acting for dh asked for a court order to see who ordered the marriage certificate?

I hesistate to mention it but some of us have seen a mumsnetter recently experience a situation where she totally supported her dp and was unaware of the full situation until various mners and support agencies were involved. Yes truth is stanger than fiction but I wouldn't have such blind faith in anyone except my (young) children. Sorry.

Won't they want the money back if he pleads guilty though?

When you say that you'll be free to start the rest of your lives - no, you won't. He'll have a fraud conviction hanging over his head.

but he's pleading guilty and in many people's eyes, that is akin to an admission of guilt

my mum got a copy of my marriage certificate by phone!! without showing any proof. she just had to send a letter requesting it, with her details!!

there are more flaws in the system that it is believed...

But this happened less than 18 months ago? So, why not get find out who ordered the marriage certificate? I don't understand. I don't understand why you've claimed you can't get legal aid when, apparently, you can.

When did your mum do this - and why?!

Anyone can get a copy of anyone else's marriage certificate. With the bare minimum of information. You do have to give a name and address but no-one checks it's not a fake address, unless you're having it posted obviously. I did this for a living up until 2 years ago. Same goes for births & deaths.

Puddytats - sorry that you are having to go through this.

But it would have to be a genuine address for someone to have received it, no? They are easy to get though, I applied for someone else's birth cert once.

it does sound like a nightmare and honestly, most people have posted (in the first instance) because they were concerned you were not getting the best (or even correct) advice

PT says it's a certified copy of the marriage certificate - in which case it may not be a duplicate obtained via GRO. You can get a certified copy by getting a solicitor to stamp a photocopy. If it is just a stamped photocopy who's stamped it?

The first cheque was in 2001, the 2nd and 3rd 2004.
We would get legal aid, but not covering what is needed. The courts decide what you do and dont need, qcs are never given in our area of the country. The complexities of the cse and the levels that we need to go into are huge, especially because of the area he worked in. We have not only taken our solicitors words on this but have done our own homework.
Contry to popular belief we have not just sat back and let this happen to us, we have explored every avenue possible, our children our suffering and nothing is worse than that. They need their parents, not two people to busy to see them grow.
Yes it will always be with us, but so are a lot of things.
As to those who are questionning my belief in my husband, i took vows, for better or worse, richer or poorer. I meant them.

Unless it was applied for at the actual registrars office. We used to do them 'while you wait'.

It is how the money was taken out that should provide the key to proving your dh's innocence surely. You can argue about how easy it is to deposit monies, but much harder to withdraw.
Was it a special account set up by someone else?
Cheques take days to clear, so whoever it was would need perfect timing and how on earth would they know that you would not check your balance in those few days.

I think the reason why people are so doubtful about this are because there are so many things that just don?t add up. Why did the police not take his work computer for instance. I spoke to dh about this and he said that companies don?t log every keystroke, partly because it?s so complex, and partly because in lots of instances this would be in breach of compliance rules because that would mean that things like passwords for instance weren?t as secure as they should be, so the police wouldn?t be able to just go on to the network they would have to have the actual computer. Also where did the money go? It was transferred out of your bank account but it would have been transferred somewhere, there would be a log of the sort code and account number of the account it was transferred to. Even if that account was off shore, there would still be a record of where it went when it left your account, Even if done online. In fact you should be able to contact your bank and get all your statements and be able to see where that money went, so why can?t you? Or have your accounts been frozen? I can?t comment on the legal aid situation as I have no knowledge of that, but the rest certainly doesn?t add up.

Things will actually be harder for you if he pleads guilty, either way you will lose all your money, if you fight the case there?s a chance you could win, if you don?t fight, there?s a chance you will lose everything as the courts could order your assets to be frozen once your dh goes to jail, so they can recover the 65k. so the only thing you will gain is a year maybe.

And to be brutally honest, with all these inconsistent facts, how can you possibly expect people to believe he is innocent when he?s prepared to stand up in court and say that he?s guilty.

I sincerely hope that you?re not judge flounce?s twin, although I think that that would be better than the thought that you were for real and with someone who was prepared to put you and his children through all this.

i dont know what to think...but if you are genuine them im so sorry that you are going through this

PT - you are asking us to believe a lot...

• that 3 large chqs went through your account without you/DH noticing
• that someone gained access codes to your accounts (that remained unchanged over 3 yrs) and moved the money out
• that someone set this all up and went to all this trouble to pin it on your DH for only 65K

PT, the only reason so many people on here think he's guilty (and you're right, this is a snapshot of RL) is because he is pleading guilty when it seems this will not be the best way forward because of the fallout after he comes out of prison, that's all.

I am sorry for you and your children for this horrible situation.

When we emigrated we needed full birth certificates to send to the immigration dept.

For both of (me & dh) we needed to give the following details

Full Name (including maiden for me)
Date of Birth
Place of Birth
Original certifcate number on the shorter certificate

Then we had to provide

Both our parents Full Names (maiden for mother's)
Their Dates of Birth
Their Places of Birth
The year they married
Any other children
Parents occupation at time of our births

That's a whole lot of info for birth certificates, so I can only summise it would be the same (or very similar) for Marriage Certs.

pennies...yes yu are right. We had to do certified copies of our marriage & birth certs, again for emigration. Sol photocopied it & stamped signed it (was told that sol had to copy it as he couldn't certify a photocopy with out the orginal doc)

So, someone had to get the origianl cert, take it to a sol or notary to gwet it copied/certified, then put the cert back in the orig place, without pt or dh seeing OR get a new one from GRO. Either way, there is a trail here & their sol would be able to request this info from the GPO, or at the very least the police would.

request this info from the GRO

Assuming the person who set them up is at PT's DH's place of work they may easily have obtained the marriage cert - I know my husband's employer has a copy of ours

People are entitled to their opinions but personally I do think it it is possible that puddytat's husband is innocent and I think she needs support rather than being accused of being a troll. This isn't as simple as paying in cheques and taking them out, this is a complex fraud that has been set out and the money has disspaeared, nobody has been able to trace it and there would have been highly trained people trying to trace it. It isn't as simple as looking through bank statements. Since it has dissapeared it is jsut as believable taht this was somebody else that made it dissapear and not puddytat's dh.
I do understand his reasons for pleading guilty, but dp accepted a caution recently, against sol advice. Even though he was innocent if he had gone to court there was a good chance he would have been found guilty in any case - so he did it for the family! Same situation, on a far smaller scale. I really can sympathise.
Puddytats is in an incredibly difficult situation and she needs support not accusations, no matter what the truth is