Puddytats - A summary of the last 18 months of hell (this will be long and i hope will answer akll questions)

[puddytats]

Dear all

I have decided to start a new thread on this and run thro everything from the beginning, if you get to the end then thankyou for reading and well done. If you have any questions please ask, i will answer as fully as I am able considering i do not, and will never know the full facts.

Here goes...

On the 12 May 2005 DD was born. On the 13th June DH returned to work after paternity leave. He got to work as usual at 9.30ish and was met in the lobby by head of HR and immediatly taken into the boardroom. He was told that discrepancies had appearded on a firm he was working on but this was not a disiplinary, simply a meeting to establish facts. DH was shocked and stunned. He was asked variuos questions including whether he knew what was going on. He said he had no idea. He was then suspended on full pay while further investigations took place. He returned home and we tried to piece together what had happened.
Records at work show that a ficticious member was made up on a real client and that DH did work on this client, including the issuing of a cheque. His computer initials were over everything. Work decided that DH was at fault at dismissed his.
As this was taking place the police also knocked on our door. DH was arrested and all paperwork relating to financial records were taken away - including all the work we had done ourselves. It transpired that 3 cheques 'passed' thrioough our bank account - one in joint bank and 2 in dh sole account. DH was adviced to no comment throughout the interview, which he did. Because of this and because one of the cheques was in joint account the police arrested me.
Names on the cheques had been changed after they were signed by the partners at DH work, we know this because there are photocopiers of the cheques before signiture and from the bank after cashing. They had been changed to either our current surname or my maiden name. The police handwriting expert said it was likely to be DH handwriting. A certified copy of our marriage certificate was also provided with the one in my maiden name.
A little of the money was moved round our variuos accounts and the rest was taken out one way or another. It would seem that everything other than the initial paying in and one cheque withdrawel was done over the internet. That money as yet has not been traced.
DH and i were cept on police bail for over a year while they completed their investigations. During this time we were powerless to do anything, I attempted to committ suicide due to the stress and we have reached lows you can not imagine.
After a hellish year i was released without charge. DH was charged on 10 counts. 3 of obtaining property by deception, 3 of fraud (can't remember exact terminology) and 1 of forgery (a letter apparently)
We have already paid over £20,000 in legal fees and if we had decided to fight the case would be looking at at leat £100,000 more including solicitors, Queens counsel, computer experts, forensic accountants, private investigators etc. At the moment DH mother in paying for us to survive - although i have now got a job, and DH father in paying legal fees. We cannot live off others forever.
If we fight it we could lose everything. We have 2 children and a need to keep a roof over their heads, they have been through so much in their very young lives that keeping a familiar home is vitsl to their stability.
We could fight it to the bitter end and have the full support of friends and family who believe us and know we have been set up. Our morals say fight but we have learnt over the past year that justice is not fair, about who is guilty or innocent but who can prove what and who can afford to prove what.
We do not want the children to remember daddy being away, we do not want to be apart at all so are trying to limit damage. We know dh is innocent and now have to ignore justice and look to what affect a lengthy trail could have on the family, the stress, tension cost etc has had to be weighed up against what could be gained or lost. We will win in the end because we have eachother.

If you have got this far then well done and thankyou

Gemmz, does she really need to do that? If people believe her, then they believe her. If they don't, then they can just go on another thread. Also, if someone is that accomplished a troll, can't they just link to any similar story in a local paper, it still won't prove anything.

I'm not having a go at you, but is it really necessary for her to do that?

I'm not sure whether notsouselessmum was replying to me, but I do feel for puddytats..if she was a friend of mine then i would say the same thing..I think pleading guilty is a mistake which might well not make things better for her/them (if he is not guilty)

puddytats, I haven't posted before, but have been following your story. I wish you all the strength to get through this difficult time.
People are quick to judge, but of course you must do what you feel is right for your family. No matter what the truth is, you are in an incredibly difficult situation. best wishes to you and your family.

zip I wasn't addressing it to anyone in particular.

I agree with you that from the confort and safety of my home pleading guilty to something I haven't done could seem crazy and suspicious. But really I don't think I can say that as the situation is beyond imagining. I think it is easy to say 'go all tha way' when one does not know what this involves. I am sure PT and her DP have thought about it loads and came to the conclusion that this is the best for them and for the kids.

what do we know? that's my point.

some people seem convinced PT is lying - how do they know that I am not sure. and if she is what have they lost if they'g given her a kind word? on the contrary if she isn't those words must have hurt her a lot. and PT does not need that now, like she said.

PT keep talking, some people do care.

Have been trying to follow this, am confused as I have no legal knowledge but I do know it is very hard (if not impossible?) to obtain a copy of a marriage certificate without knowing many of the details already - you just need to look at the website about ordering copies online.

I think that the reaction on here is only a tiny amount of what you can expect in rl if your dh pleads guilty to this crime. Of course there are those friend/family close to you who might believe in his innocence, but generally the common man isn?t going to be saying ?oh he was convicted of defrauding the bank he worked for, but it?s alright he didn?t do it, he just pleaded guilty so he didn?t have to spend as much time in jail?. If he pleads guilty then he?s guilty as far as the majority of people will be concerned, and it goes way beyond just the time spent in jail, this will destroy your credit rating. You are like to never again be approved for a mortgage, loan, credit card, apart from from those dodgy adverts where they say ?even if you?ve got a ccj we?ll loan you the money. He will never again work in the finance sector, in all reality he wouldn?t even be able to get a job in tescos because he might have access to the tills and someone who has stolen money once might do it again.

I think he?s guilty, and I think you either know he?s guilty or you?re incredibly naive. If the money went through your bank account then how did you not notice? I sure as hell would notice 40 grand coming into and back out of my bank account, how did they get your maiden name and marriage certificate? I?ve heard of identity theft but to commit identity theft to the extent that the thief can steal from the person?s employer as well is just beyond the relms of reality.

I don?t think you are a troll, but I do think your dh is a criminal, and if it was me I would seriously start to question a relationship where I either

1 had been lied to to this extent by my dh that I was prepared to shout his innocence from the rooftops despite the fact he was pleading guilty,

or

2, my dh had expected me to go along with the crime he had committed and shout his innocence from the rooftops.

Think about what this is doing to your children as well, what is it going to do to them when their friends at school find out their daddy is in prison, kids are cruel, very cruel.

Think about what you?re doing.

PT, there are people here if you need any help or advice, i would be willing to listen if you ever need to talk, i have the biggest amount of respect for you and your dh, you have stood by each other through all of this, and come out even stronger on the other side!
Dont let anyone tell you what to do, you and your dh are grown ups and can make you own decisions through life!

I wish you and your husband the very best, and no matter how hard and tuff things may feel, remember "the grass is always greener on the other side!"

I must admit the marriage certificate thing is something that I wondered about , how could you get a duplicate without having to show some identity.
The other thing that did puzzle me is that you said your husband worked on a client file believing it to be a genuine file for a pension or something to that effect, who was he passed the file by, was it someone he worked closely with , usually there is a trail of work in companies where things pass down a chain. Maybe he is covering for someone else. I work in Accounts and deal with large volumes of money each month but each client I know where it originates from it does'nt just appear it goes through many departments before they get to me.

Puddytats please listen to some of this as maybe you have'nt worked in this type of industry before , I have hundreds of clients accounts on my system but they always have a starting contract countersigned by more than one person and its very unusual for the same person to be able to pay funds , do the banking, etc without being cross checked as it breaks accounting regulations.

sorry Puddytats I did have a thought earlier, maybe the registrar in the offices in the borough where you were married would have a record of the form, it seems you have to fill out quite a detailed form to obtain one which they would hold on file, some even require the couple's parents name as security. They may still have a record I know when I got my duplicate birth certificate recently I had to bring all my id with me and fill out a form etc..they may have this info still as its only been a year since this all started.

If your pleads guilty, won't they expect him to tell them where the money is?

Or doesn't it work like that?

If they really believe he's guilty, and he pleads guilty, and they think he has a million or so stashed away somewhere - they won't leave you alone after he's done his sentence, will they?

Or...doesn't it work like that?

well they would surely go forward with a civil case, which could take a few years to come to court

and if they went ahead with a civil case they would win that as he had already pleaded guilty in a criminal court, in which case he would be ordered to pay back all the money and if he didn't have the cash to hand then assets could be ceased, house, car, possessions etc.

Unless...he's taken the money and scarpered to Rio?

Actually getting a repeat marriage certificate is pretty easy - I lost mine and got a new one online - OK I knew the answers to the questions easily as it was my own - but they weren't hard - parents names that sort of stuff - easy to get from electoral roll. At no time did I have to prove I was me. And then I used this certificate to renew my passport.

but Liz P , its would be quite hard for someone to know your parents names would'nt it, and you would have to pay by debit card , which they might have a record of? do you think ? its very odd , this sort of thing would really bug me , it might be worth Puddytats making an enquiry.

it's fairly easy to obtain copies of certain documents, I remember there was a programme about identity theft on the bbc once ... or maybe it was ITV ... anyway one of their researchers effectively stole David Blunkett's identity as he was home secretary then and managed to get a provisional driving licence in his name which in itself was amusing.

The bit I find strange is that they used the bank account to channel the money from the employers, which would imply that it was someone from the employers who had done it, also, how did the OP not notice the 40 grand going into and out of the bank account - most of us would notice that surely?

I think Puddytats said that it went in and out straight away it was a cheque that was altered and paid in at a branch but the paying in slip was not stamped or filled out properly and then when cleared went out via the internet which if you did'nt go to the bank that week you might not notice unless you got a mini statement, if I remember he was off work as they had just had another baby so may have been too busy to notice. Its probably someone who works very closely with him to know all that info , its really awful to think if it genuinely was'nt him then someone at work is just sitting back letting this happen to a colleague.

but it would still show on your statement though, even if a cheque goes straight in and then out again it shows up on the bank statement. plus the police said it was his signature, so whoever it was could forge his signature which means they would have had access to something with the signature on it.

I wouldn't notice £40K going in and out of our joint account.
Honestly, I wouldn't. I don't do the banking. [lame]

zippitippitoes comment saying we're talking about plead guilty and you might serve a year less is the most relevant on the thread. Who would think that such an advantage. I can't understand that. If you plead not guilty you might well serve a year less but you might also be found not guilty and not have the assets/civil claims afterwards.

if a civil case went ahead after he has been found guilty in a criminal case, the presumption is that he is liable unless he can prove otherwise, as opposed to the normal method of not liable until proven such.
That is one thing that I do not understand. Pleading guilty is not going to ennable them to keep their financial standing as there will be a civil case and if he has voluntarily pleaded guilty they are going to sue him for £40k and in all probably are going to win. So you will have had a prison sentance and £40k to find.

but the bank would notice it. if more than £7k (could have the figure wrong but it's less than 10k) goes into or out of your account it is logged under financial iregularities, something isn't always done about it of course as it's not always fraud, but it is always traceable as these transactions have to be retained for a period - I think it is 7 years but would have to ask dh as he knows more about this sort of thing than i do.

I think he is pleading guilty because he's been caught, he's telling pt that he's innocent because he has 40k squirrelled away somewhere that he doesn't want her to know about.

exactly kelly. when it comes to fraud it's not just about serving your sentence and moving on, there's a price to pay, and as he's pleading guilty he's said he took the money so by rights they can demand it back. And that includes ceasing assets - i.e. the family home to pay for it.

Curlysmum exactly (re the payment for a copy of marriage certificate I mean - and surely the GRO would have at least the bare details of who had ordered a replacement certificate if it wasn't one of the partners in the marriage - ie, payment details and the address to which it was sent).