Puddytats - A summary of the last 18 months of hell (this will be long and i hope will answer akll questions)

[puddytats]

Dear all

I have decided to start a new thread on this and run thro everything from the beginning, if you get to the end then thankyou for reading and well done. If you have any questions please ask, i will answer as fully as I am able considering i do not, and will never know the full facts.

Here goes...

On the 12 May 2005 DD was born. On the 13th June DH returned to work after paternity leave. He got to work as usual at 9.30ish and was met in the lobby by head of HR and immediatly taken into the boardroom. He was told that discrepancies had appearded on a firm he was working on but this was not a disiplinary, simply a meeting to establish facts. DH was shocked and stunned. He was asked variuos questions including whether he knew what was going on. He said he had no idea. He was then suspended on full pay while further investigations took place. He returned home and we tried to piece together what had happened.
Records at work show that a ficticious member was made up on a real client and that DH did work on this client, including the issuing of a cheque. His computer initials were over everything. Work decided that DH was at fault at dismissed his.
As this was taking place the police also knocked on our door. DH was arrested and all paperwork relating to financial records were taken away - including all the work we had done ourselves. It transpired that 3 cheques 'passed' thrioough our bank account - one in joint bank and 2 in dh sole account. DH was adviced to no comment throughout the interview, which he did. Because of this and because one of the cheques was in joint account the police arrested me.
Names on the cheques had been changed after they were signed by the partners at DH work, we know this because there are photocopiers of the cheques before signiture and from the bank after cashing. They had been changed to either our current surname or my maiden name. The police handwriting expert said it was likely to be DH handwriting. A certified copy of our marriage certificate was also provided with the one in my maiden name.
A little of the money was moved round our variuos accounts and the rest was taken out one way or another. It would seem that everything other than the initial paying in and one cheque withdrawel was done over the internet. That money as yet has not been traced.
DH and i were cept on police bail for over a year while they completed their investigations. During this time we were powerless to do anything, I attempted to committ suicide due to the stress and we have reached lows you can not imagine.
After a hellish year i was released without charge. DH was charged on 10 counts. 3 of obtaining property by deception, 3 of fraud (can't remember exact terminology) and 1 of forgery (a letter apparently)
We have already paid over £20,000 in legal fees and if we had decided to fight the case would be looking at at leat £100,000 more including solicitors, Queens counsel, computer experts, forensic accountants, private investigators etc. At the moment DH mother in paying for us to survive - although i have now got a job, and DH father in paying legal fees. We cannot live off others forever.
If we fight it we could lose everything. We have 2 children and a need to keep a roof over their heads, they have been through so much in their very young lives that keeping a familiar home is vitsl to their stability.
We could fight it to the bitter end and have the full support of friends and family who believe us and know we have been set up. Our morals say fight but we have learnt over the past year that justice is not fair, about who is guilty or innocent but who can prove what and who can afford to prove what.
We do not want the children to remember daddy being away, we do not want to be apart at all so are trying to limit damage. We know dh is innocent and now have to ignore justice and look to what affect a lengthy trail could have on the family, the stress, tension cost etc has had to be weighed up against what could be gained or lost. We will win in the end because we have eachother.

If you have got this far then well done and thankyou

Puddytats, I always wonder about you and your dh and how things are going for you.
I'm so sad reading this, it is just terrible.
I just hope and pray that something somewhere will go your way and people will see the truth.
Thinking of you all.

xxx
(Nbg)

Good god puddy, what a complete nightmare, no advice but my thoughts are with you and your dp.

I don't understand how you don't know where the money has gone. If it has all been done over the internet then it must be clear that it has gone somewhere - where?
I must say you are being very loyal to your DH. Faced with all this evidence, I'm afraid I would assume that my DH had done it, even though I currently believe that he is the most honest man in christendom. And if he pleaded guilty I would be even more certain that he had done it. There doesn't seem to be any other explanation.

Best of luck to you all.

If it was mine PPH I'd think the same but am judging this solely on puddytats faith and belief on her dh

puddytats, I've come to this quite late (I'm quite new) so haven't really got to grips with your story before. You poor poor thing, it sounds utterly horrendous . It's everyone's worst nightmare to be stitched up like this. I don't feel qualified to have an opinion on what you and dh should decide to do, there are so many factors for you to weigh up and the whole situation is so unfair. I can only say I'll be thinking of you, and rooting for you too.

Puddytats, with regard to the recovery process, you say that, as you own half the house, they cannot touch that half. That may be so (although, from what you have said before, there is some belief that you were involved, so they may consider pursuing you), but they can force the sale of the house in order to recover your dh's share.

I have total faith in my husband, I have held him as he wept, I have seen the total disbelief as more and more comes to light. I have known and loved him for 15 years.
We have 2 children together.
He says he did not do it. I believe him.
I completly understand why it is hard to believe with the evidence stacked against him and we have both said that the whole thing is so completly unbelievable if it were happening to anyone else we would have our suspisions.
I (i hope) am in the clear as they have said they have nothing on me. My mother in law has said that she would lose her house before we and the children lose ours.
We have such wonderful, supportive people around us and we owe it to them and our children to be strong. That is not always easy and as the 13th creeps closer and closer i can feel the tension rising.
That said there are people in worse situations and they get thro, at least we have eachother.
Please can someone remind me of this post when i am alone and low over the next few months

I wouldn't doubt my husband either. Never in a million years. If you know someone, you really know.

puddytats, I have been following this on and off and cannot imagine what you're all going through.

You are to be commended for your unfalterng faith in your dh, and I am sorry that such a precious time in your lives has been tainted by such a thing.

Like Greensleeves said, ""If you know someone, you really know"". And I agree, if it were me, I would have no reason to doubt dh's innocence, regardless of what was stacked up against him.

You are lucky to have such a great support network amoungst your family & friends.

Did they ever check DH's work PC?

Message withdrawn

hi

i am new too, and have only just come to your story too. i am so incredibly sorry.

i just wanted to say, in a slightly odd tangent, that my brother was sent to prison (pentonville) a few years ago for something he didnt do. it was awful, just so very hard. but i would say that he managed. prison is obviously tough, but the hardest thing will be the seperation. there are things to do inside, and people to support each other and so on. if it does indeed come to it - then of your dh keeps his head down and takes each day with strength and perpective, then he will be absoluely fine in the end. i would even say that my brother left with alot of unbeleivable stories, but unbowed and unaltered. it certainly hasnt dragged him down.

i hope this is helpful. it isnt meant to only focus on the negative. its just that you seem so fixed on the guilty plea, i just wanted to reassure you about the reality of what he and you might expect.

infact, if you want to discuss it further, or indeed, to speak to my brother to face some of the facts of day to day prison life whihc might be ahead, do let me know.

but, for now, i will be thinking of you.

x

Puddycats - I remember reading some of you threads a while ago. So sorry you are going through all of this.

Am amazed they didn't take his work computer. Can your solicitor not demand it as part of the case?

Although I suppose if your DH is pleading guilty there is no defence case to be made.

I am sitting here feeling as if there must be SOMETHING that can be done.

Hi puddytats, I wasn't previously aware of the full story. Thank you for posting this thread so everyone can catch up.

I just wanted to say, a close friend of mine was convicted of an offence he did not commit, served several months on remand and then had to go on the sex offenders register and attend therapy designed to 'cure' him of his affliction - it cost him many thousands to prove that 1,600 images 'found' on his computer after the police confiscated it couldn't possibly have been downloaded by him as he was travelling a lot and had been miles away from his computer at the times this was supposed to have happened. Because there were four images the expert he hired could not explain, he was found guilty. How unreasonable and unfair is that?

But his family and friends believed in him and there is life after false imprisonment. He has rebuilt his life and is happy now. What I'm saying is that this nightmare will come to an end and you can be happy again. Good luck to you.

The police have never seized the work computer as the case they already have is strong enough without it i suppose. I do not know the ins and outs of money disapperaing but i know that it is possible for it to happen - that is what money laundering is all about. The police are not interested in tracing it, all they care about is it went into the account.
We cannot afford to trace it all the way to the bitter end and if we were to fight the case we would need to prove that the work computer could be benificial to our case and then apply for a court order to have it.
Anorak and maggiesmama thank you for your stories. We are most afraid of when he comes out and whether the changes in both of us will still let us be together.

Puddytats I'm sure your relationship will stay strong. Nobody can take what you feel for each other away from you.
((((hugs))))) which don't seem enough.

Thank you for posting the whole story puddytats, you didn't need to take the time to do this but I'm very glad that you did.

Someone rang us last night and said that the Halifax had given him our number because a payment had been made from his account to ours. We have no idea what has happened and I did think of you.

I wonder if you or dh have come across \link{http://www.innocent.org.uk/these people} - sorry again if not relevant.

Message withdrawn

as i said, please do feel free to contact me if you want to talk through what he might expect if he does have to do time. also, i would suggest you contact support groups for families of prisoners - who were amazing, from emotioanl suppport, to practicalities - as soon as possible...

keep in touch.

x

[not dodgy - will email you p!]

There are a few things I don't understand. Why is it not easy and cheap to track where the money went when it left the account neither of you noticed the money going into? Surely that's the first thing the bank would do or was it drawn out in cash?

Secondly it costs notihng to plead not guilty and no one in the UK has to use a lawyer if they can't afford it and can't get legal aid. So why not just plead not guilty?

If he does plead guilty what if he gets a much longer sentence than you thought and what as soeone said above happens when they claim his half o the house? Also if he pleads guilty remember the standard of proof I think for civil damages cases is much less than criminal so they still might come against you for the money.

For your own peace of mind would you subject him to a lie detector test just so you know?

Have you tried avenues for free legal advice - the Bar pro bono unit? Appeals to lawyers etc.

Have you tried non legal things like the press, getting others on your side, journalists etc interested -obviously that's not always wise but sometimes works.

You might find a clever computer forensics expert who'd do it free in return for some publicity.

Good luck. Life is very unfair for many of us. It's how we deal with it that matters.

This is so wrong.Can't you go to the papers now and get some support that way?Why don't his employers want to know where the money went?Or why won't they support him Awful situation

Post this thread to a magazine like Computer Weekly and they might find someone who will do some checks etc for you. Presumably if he's pleaded guilty it's not too late to change back even right to the day in court.

I do not need him to do a lie dectector test, I have peace of mind, i know that he did not do it. He said he did not, that is good enough for me.
You are right, it costs nothing to plead guilty. That is the easy part, the difficult bit is PROVING that you are not guilty. The burden of proof is not on the police to prove he did do it but on us to prove he did not do it.
All the advice given is taken with heartfelt thanks and we do consider everything people have said, on here and elsewhere.
Saying that we have lived with the situation for the last 18 months. We have done everything we can. Yes we could get legal aid, but that would not entitle us to specialists such as forensic accountants, handwriting experts, computer experts, private detectives etc. In some parts of the country (including ours) it does not even pay for a QC.
We have to weigh up what is to be gained and lost fighting, against what is to be gained and lost drawing a line under the whole horrible situation. For our family we have chosen this route. I am not saying that is the right route but it is the best route.
I hope that makes sense!

In civil cases it is on the balance of probabilities but in criminal cases guilt needs to be proven beyond reasonable doubt. Am confused about why you husband needs to prove he is not guilty.