Puddytats - A summary of the last 18 months of hell (this will be long and i hope will answer akll questions)

[puddytats]

Dear all

I have decided to start a new thread on this and run thro everything from the beginning, if you get to the end then thankyou for reading and well done. If you have any questions please ask, i will answer as fully as I am able considering i do not, and will never know the full facts.

Here goes...

On the 12 May 2005 DD was born. On the 13th June DH returned to work after paternity leave. He got to work as usual at 9.30ish and was met in the lobby by head of HR and immediatly taken into the boardroom. He was told that discrepancies had appearded on a firm he was working on but this was not a disiplinary, simply a meeting to establish facts. DH was shocked and stunned. He was asked variuos questions including whether he knew what was going on. He said he had no idea. He was then suspended on full pay while further investigations took place. He returned home and we tried to piece together what had happened.
Records at work show that a ficticious member was made up on a real client and that DH did work on this client, including the issuing of a cheque. His computer initials were over everything. Work decided that DH was at fault at dismissed his.
As this was taking place the police also knocked on our door. DH was arrested and all paperwork relating to financial records were taken away - including all the work we had done ourselves. It transpired that 3 cheques 'passed' thrioough our bank account - one in joint bank and 2 in dh sole account. DH was adviced to no comment throughout the interview, which he did. Because of this and because one of the cheques was in joint account the police arrested me.
Names on the cheques had been changed after they were signed by the partners at DH work, we know this because there are photocopiers of the cheques before signiture and from the bank after cashing. They had been changed to either our current surname or my maiden name. The police handwriting expert said it was likely to be DH handwriting. A certified copy of our marriage certificate was also provided with the one in my maiden name.
A little of the money was moved round our variuos accounts and the rest was taken out one way or another. It would seem that everything other than the initial paying in and one cheque withdrawel was done over the internet. That money as yet has not been traced.
DH and i were cept on police bail for over a year while they completed their investigations. During this time we were powerless to do anything, I attempted to committ suicide due to the stress and we have reached lows you can not imagine.
After a hellish year i was released without charge. DH was charged on 10 counts. 3 of obtaining property by deception, 3 of fraud (can't remember exact terminology) and 1 of forgery (a letter apparently)
We have already paid over £20,000 in legal fees and if we had decided to fight the case would be looking at at leat £100,000 more including solicitors, Queens counsel, computer experts, forensic accountants, private investigators etc. At the moment DH mother in paying for us to survive - although i have now got a job, and DH father in paying legal fees. We cannot live off others forever.
If we fight it we could lose everything. We have 2 children and a need to keep a roof over their heads, they have been through so much in their very young lives that keeping a familiar home is vitsl to their stability.
We could fight it to the bitter end and have the full support of friends and family who believe us and know we have been set up. Our morals say fight but we have learnt over the past year that justice is not fair, about who is guilty or innocent but who can prove what and who can afford to prove what.
We do not want the children to remember daddy being away, we do not want to be apart at all so are trying to limit damage. We know dh is innocent and now have to ignore justice and look to what affect a lengthy trail could have on the family, the stress, tension cost etc has had to be weighed up against what could be gained or lost. We will win in the end because we have eachother.

If you have got this far then well done and thankyou

Thankyou Kellykrueger.
is it really so hard to understand that if the police have not been able to trace the money either.
Is it really so hard to believe that they have not taken his work computer.
Is it really so hard to believe that a man is prepared to put his family first, rather than drag the situation on and on and on.
Is it really so hard to believe that this sort of thing happens.
2 years ago, i would have sat at my computer saying exactly the same thing as you.
I am now living the hell and all i wanted was support.
To the few who have given it, i cannot thankyou enough.
For the many people who believe i am making this up, the 13th October will show that i am not a troll.
I am however trying to cope with a nightmare situation, came on here as have received support in the past and have been branded a liar. I am in tears while typing this so thankyou for destroying a little more of me.

PT. I really do not think most people posting here are accusing you of trolling. I think some people just find it very hard to get their heads round the whole thing and absolutely believe in his innocence - me included tbh, although if you say he is innocent that is the presumption I go on when talking to you, as I do not know him, you or the situation. I do think that most people understand what a nightmare the whole thing is for you and your children and are very happy to keep supporting you.

PT - Good luck for the 13th. I can understand why your DH is choosing to plead guilty and hope he gets the short sentence you are hoping for

PT, I have not posted before but have been following your story. I just want to pass on my sincere hope that your family will come through this nightmare intact and stronger. All the best for 13th October. Stay strong for your children's sake.

By pleading guilty none of the evidence or story will be told in court...does he not find that painful, no chance to argue or even see why or how the case has been made against him?

To go to court just for sentencing when you are completely innocent would be a nightmare to me and anyone I know.

Been thinking about you lots PT and hope you and your family all the strength in the world.
With regards to your dh's work computer- when his employers had become suspicious they could have had a forensic image taken of his hardrive. Something which can just take a short while and he would never have known about it. DH has done this quite a few time in his work (internal audit), and the 'user' has never known.

This could explain why they never appeared to secure it.

What will happen after he pleads guilty? Prison, in and out, nothing further?

I think that pleading guilty will have an ENORMOUS impact on the rest of your lives.

Other than that, wholeheartedly agree with FiT's post.

He finds it incredibly difficult. The truth will never be known. That is a sacrifice we have decided to make. Only time will tell if we have made the right decision. Hindsight is not something we have the benifit of beforehand

Imagine how you would feel if he were found not guilty..isn't it worth taking that route? Surely it is?

And people on here who are saying plead not guilty wouldn't be saying it if they didn't presume he was innocent.

Yes, exactly. If I thought he was guilty, I'd never suggest pleading not guilty!

Has your solicitor talked about the after effects of pleading guilty? Will DH get a job again?

and if your solicitor says that he might get twelve months if he pleads guilty then it would be 18 months without one third reduction ie if he pleads not guilty but is found guilty anyway..of course your solicitor can really have know idea what the sentence will be only the sentence guidelines for the offence

and then half for good behaviour would make it 6 months or 9 months

I really admire you Puddytats this is so loyal of you , I just could not stand back and let my partner plead guilty to something he had'nt done , I would never sleep easy at night again ,

I'm sorry but I would give him an ultimatiun to plead not guilty and help him prove it, rather than him lose possibly our home and his good name for nothing. I know its easier said than done but for you to put all your trust in him.

A lady I worked with gave upo work after her second child on her husbands request , they were childhood sweethearts I went to their lovely wedding 15 years ago , and he went behind her back taking out loans re-financing the house car etc, to about 80k when she confronted him he cried and had no real explanation of where the money was , he left and declared himself bancrupt, leaving her with two young children and her parents had to pay off the debtors with their life saving's to keep her in her home. After I saw what she went through I could just not believe what he had done, and just felt its so difficult to truly trust someone.
Surely it has to be worth a shot at this, if you have to pay back 65k anyway you might as well spend it defending yourself, or at least look into some of the smaller aspects like the marriage cert, one of the cheques from 2004, this might prove a reasonable doubt when it goes to court.

Puttytats, firstly I do not think you are a troll, I think that what you are going through is genuine, but I I agree with so many posters on here ? it is incomprehensible why someone would plead guilty to a crime that they did not commit knowing full well that they will be forced to go to prison and that their family will suffer long term as a result with potential loss of the family home etc. I too would give my husband an ultimatum if it was me, either fight for acquittal or I would walk away. Remember, it is not he who has to prove that he did not do it, it is the prosecution that have to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that he did, if he, or anyone else has told you any differently then they are lying to you.

Have you actually been present during the discussions with solicitors when they have said that there is too much evidence against him and that he should plead guilty? Have you heard all of the evidence etc first hand from police/solicitors or has your dh told you what he has been told and you?ve believed what he has told you without needing clarification from someone else? There are so many people on here who have said that the system re legal aid etc, and tracing of electronic bank transfers just doesn?t work in the way you have been told that it?s impossible to believe that your solicitors are right and everyone else is wrong. If you have heard all of this first hand from the solicitors have you saught a second opinion from someone else?

He doesn?t have to decide until the day of the hearing ? he can enter a not guilty plea at the last minute if he so chooses. But while he chooses to plead guilty he is as good as teling the world that he did it, and in reality this is the easy way out for him, because he will go to prison while you will be left on the outside to pick up the pieces, you will be the one left to explain to your children why they won?t see their daddy for the next 2/3/4 years, why you have to sell the house, and you will be ?that woman whose husband stole all that money?, and by standing by him while he pleads guilty you are guilty by association. If the case makes it to the local media, which is likely, then you will be known by everyone. If he pleads not guilty you will be able to say ?he?s innocent?, but if he pleads guilty you will either have to admit that you knew what he was doing, or you will need to disassociate from him and say that you had no idea what he was up to. This really isn?t the easy way out, please please think about what you are doing, if you really think he is innocent then help him to fight his case, but if he won?t fight his case for you and the children then please don?t feel that you have to support him, you deserve much better than that.

I agree completely with the last poster, would he do the same for you. I would make a stand for yourself and the children, either he fights it and you support him all the way, or he pleads guilty and I would walk away, no where in your marriage vows would anyone expect you to stand by this.
If he told you he had done it and asked for your for you to forgive him thats another matter,and you chose to that's all very well, but to put you through all of this without giving it a go, it is very hard on the outside remember he will be sitting in prison which I appreciate is not nice but you will be doing all the running around outside dealing with the crap, writing letters trying to arrange visits , coping with the children and finances by yourself, he should support you and give it a go even if there is only a slim chance he will get a not guilty.

Its no picnic in prison , but it will be very tough for you managing the day to day on the outside. Do it for your children if nothing else , they would be proud to think you and their father had fought this in years to come not given up for the sake of shorter sentence.

If we have any 'unusual' payments out of our account, the bank ring and check them out.

When large amounts are paid in, the bank ask where they have come from.

When an employee stole a large amount of money from us (via a cheque he signed), the bank worked with us to find out what had happened.

With money laundering regs., it is pretty impossible to hide trails, although I accept that serious fraudsters would have their ways.

Would it be worth their while for £65,000 though?

Feel very sorry for you pt, but I'd be wanting answers to questions, from dh, from police, from lawyers, from bank etc.

I?ve been thinking about this and I think I can see the insentive for the guilty plea beyond the shorter sentence. If he pleads not guilty, then it will go to trial, the prosecution will have access to all his financial records and will know everything about what he has done financially, possibly there is more to this than just the £65000. Then more about him will come to light, things he perhaps doesn?t want his family ever finding out. If he pleads guilty he will be sentenced and sent to jail. While he is there, puttytats will be liable for the repayment of the £65000, the house will probably be seized, all financial assets will be frozen and pt and her children will be left with nothing. And then when dh gets out of jail in 4 years or so, he can disappear off into the sunset with his 65 grand because his wife will already have footed the bill for that.

he gets less of a discount by pleading guilty att he court door than straight away

if at al
its not compulsory now

think the door of the court is one tenth on the sliding scale, but how long is the sentence anyway for 65k presumably a lot less than for 2 million

Interesting pleasedontdoit

Not meaning to be flippant - £65,000 wouldn't last a lifetime.

my thoughts as well pleasedontdoit - that he may be pleading guilty even if innocent so that something that he thinks will hurt pt and children even more doesn't come out - an affair or a near miss with a bunny-boiler from work who has then set him up. It will be very difficult for puddytats while he is in prison - but I don't think he'll then leave her for his wedge of cash - but that is just a guess.
I believe her when shes says she genuinely had no idea about the money going through the account - that could so be me - I don't even know how much dh earns - because he tells me and I forget. I think it is a reaction to always balancing cheque books as a student years - now I know the money is always there I just don't look!

I wasn't thinking an affair or similar, I was thinking more along the lines of that maybe he's stolen more than 65 grand but he has laundered the money through other sources in the past and now he's got complacent and allowed it to go through his bank accounts. if there was more than 65 grand, the police would find it during their investigations surely, whereas if he pleads guilty there will be no investigation. And running away with the cash may always have been the plan, after all, if he had the money without puttytats knowing about it, surely he wasn't intending for her to ever find out wo what was he planning.

I don't think she is a troll, but I don't think he's pleading guilty to something he hasn't done, I think he's pleading guilty to something he has done.

puddytats posted at 8.55 today:

is it really so hard to understand that if the police have not been able to trace the money either.
Is it really so hard to believe that they have not taken his work computer.
Is it really so hard to believe that a man is prepared to put his family first, rather than drag the situation on and on and on.
Is it really so hard to believe that this sort of thing happens.

All but the first are actually quite easy to believe, but that first one - that the police have not been able to trace the money - is the one that sticks, and pleasedontdoit's scenario is distressingly convincing as an explanation.

i reckon he is spuinning her a line