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erudio student loans

999 replies

mrsbug · 17/03/2014 17:37

Hi, I have an old student loan from 1998 which I have been deferring since then as I have never earned enough to pay it back (there are some advantages to being poor Smile)

I recently had a letter from a company called erudio student loans saying they have bought my student loan from the government. All very reassuring about how the t and cs of my loan won't change, etc.

Now I've had the regular deferral letter from them and it's much more detailed than before. They want my bank details which I'm not really happy to give, and they say my details will be checked with a credit reference agency, which I don't think they used to do - my loan has never shown on my credit file.

Has anyone else had this? Do I have to give them this info?

OP posts:
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PolterGoose · 27/03/2014 21:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Angepw · 27/03/2014 22:16

Thanks emptycoffers off to write my letter now....

TwinkleSparkleBling · 27/03/2014 22:28

I was just filling my forms in tonight and asked DH to google Erudio. His response "Hold on the Oracle (that's MN btw) has a big page on them".

Thank you so much, I wouldn't even have realised about the changes to the t&c.

I'm going to return the forms with relevant sections blacked out!

erudioed · 28/03/2014 07:35

The way i see it, today, is that if erudio has breeched the original agreement concerning passing all our info on to CRA's, even though we havent breeched our agreements, then the 100,000 or so deferers must have a strong case for those first deferrment packs being a breech of the agreement/our original terms and conditions. By including an implicit agreement that they can pass our info on, via the signing of the deferment letter, is almost like blackmail, especially considering they asked for our consent to do this in the original packs they sent out informing us they now owned the loans.
Talking to people close-ish to the deal, they think contacting CRA's may be legal under some consumer credit agreement. They said that the SLC didnt enforce this but that erudio may have the right. However, that doesnt take into account the posts in this forum about our original terms and agreement concerning only passing this info on if we breech our agreement/default. It is very important to find out which argument is correct. If Erudio first ask for permission to pass info on, then send out their second correspondence to us making this implicit with our deferments (which is also a way of getting us to sign the right over), then they must need permission and the original terms and agreement could actually be correct. They need us to sign to allow them to do it, otherwise they would be breaching our original agreement. Thus, they could be legally covered by ammending our agreements via direct consent from us.
I was also told that they seem to have mixed up messages related to what happens to a defaulter and a deferer on the back page our deferment letters, which makes a deferer think that the same processes will rain down on them as would a defaulter.
The bind being that, if we object to signing their forms and agreeing to them putting us on the CRA lists (and other things like bank details), the length of the time our disputes take could take us into the payment period after the deferment period has passed...and if they dont have our bank account details, that could place us on the defaulters list (automated computer systems and all) and have us legitimately put on the CRA lists.
It is rather important to find an answer to this but i dont really have access to people who know where we legally stand...nor the money to find out.
If it is deemed that they have illegally blackmailed us into signing our info over to CRAs (amongst other things), then surely all those original deferment packs would have to be destroyed and reissued to the 100,000 or so of us who got them, which would surely be newsworthy. And beyond that, it would may be make them treat us like the deferers we are and not the defaulters/guilty we are not. After all, playing hard ball with deferers may be legal (we do need a definitive answer to this i feel), but as we are just following our agreements and done nothing wrong, i cant see how playing hard ball with us will win them any fans whatsoever. We have, i state again, done nothing wrong. It was never considered at the signing of the Erudio agreement that they would get much out of us deferers, but it seems they are going to try their best. But as we have the solid ground of doing everything correct and being innocent of any negative acts (we do contact them and keep in touch for example), that must stand for something.
The first step is put in a complaint to erudio, then we can go to the independent assessor as i understand it. If erudio has messed up, then they get fined something like £100 automatically. It is therefore important that we all start that process/querying with erudio. You can do it just by telephoning the deferment section, highlighting the problem, and saying you wish to lodge a complaint. My complaint handler took down my info and argument down very accurately. However, to speed things up/slow things down, it is all via direct post. I was told they cannot email out directly to 'customers' but can receive emails in.
On a personal note, i find it all rather annoying because i just want to sign the damn form and rubber stamp my deferment again but feel i cant because i am being led into signing up to things that annoy me now, but who knows where these things will lead in the coming years. Most of us only have 7 or 8 years left anyway, so they must have a path they are directing us down, and not being a debtor before, i dont know where it leads. As such, now is the best time to make the stand before we sign away something that will have dire consequences in the coming few years.
One other thought, being deferers means we arent rich, so if they did start taking payments because of late deferment practices their end, maybe some of us would end up being pushed into bank charges territory. And the way they have started 'our' relationship thus far, giving over bank details could have dire consequences that they need to assure us about clearly! I do know that they have been ordered to treat us differently to credit card debtors and the like, and been trained to be extra friendly and understanding just for us, so going outside of our original agreements (if they have) would sure attract attention if we can prove it.

mandakl · 28/03/2014 07:41

There is no permission on my agreements for them to share information with the credit reference agencies unless you are in breach of the agreement. That is very very very clear.

emptycoffers · 28/03/2014 08:35

erudioed - on the email note, I contacted erudio by email using the customer service email address on thier 'contact us' page and received an email reply within a couple of days - not from a 'named person' though - from customer service@erudio

I wrote on cover letter that submission of this application did not give or imply consent to any changes in the T&cs - whether they ignore it or not at this stage - it's a line in the sand.

On the 'childcare vouchers' issue, all of the original SLC contracts exclude from gross income ONLY 'disability-related benefits'.
Like child benefit, I would assume childcare benefits are not exclusively 'disability related' and so must be counted as part of gross income.

Of course, new benefits came in over time after the original agreements were drawn up - but I guess we can't expect to change the terms retrospectively to suit us and then criticise Erudio if they try to do the same.

I'm no expert or lawyer so... it's probably worth querying with Erudio

erudioed · 28/03/2014 08:48

emptycoffers: that is good to know, i was obviously lied to yesterday, i was told they had no facility to mail out but could accept mails in.
mandakl...i dont disagree but i was told (and i dont know the truth in it) that if it falls under some general consumer debt agreement that the SLC loan falls within (i think it is mortgage style loans), the sharing with CRA's could be implicit, even though it might not directly state it in our T&C's. But, as suggested in the forum, in our original T&C's with the SLC, 'if' it 'states' that info wont be shared unless we do something wrong then that is a different game altogether and we would be legally right. It is a mine field knowing what we think is morally right and what is legally right, and i am just trying to make that distinction because we need to know somehow.

mandakl · 28/03/2014 08:49

They either

(a) Have the right to report to the credit agencies already, whether you sign that declaration or not. In which case, crossing it out or not returning it has no effect.

(b) They don't have that right at the moment, so they are trying to impose a change by that declaration. Nothing says you have to agree to that for your deferment to be legal, and they are not meant to be changing the terms of the loans in any case.

Either way, I'm not going to sign anything agreeing to it.

LittleMissGreen · 28/03/2014 09:21

I think it might just be time to start writing a letter to my MP about the changing of terms and conditions, and therefore Erudio backtracking on the deal they signed with the government to buy the loans... Anyone got some good words?

madrands · 28/03/2014 09:22

Hi and many thanks for the great info posted.

could someone confirm if the agreement (as i haven't a copy) mentions anything about them (SLC) having the option of selling the loans in the future? as a friend has told me that this in itself is a breech of contract. Also, we should send a letter of complaint stating the lack of details and information, the manner in which the letters have been written and even the worry it has caused.
any comments and has anyone posted a draft letter of complaint on here?

leica · 28/03/2014 09:29

LittleMissGreen: the first thing I did was email my MP asking for assurances that the ts and cs hadn't changed, because, it looks like they have. Am yet to have a response...

mandakl · 28/03/2014 09:35

madrands: The loan agreements all give them the right to sell the accounts on to another party. Legal term for that is assignment.

spookySwitched · 28/03/2014 11:40

Can anyone answer a question for me? I'm a working single parent and have every year deferred as I don't earn enough.

However the Erudio deferment letter, if I take into account my child benefit and my child tax credits (I have 4 children so get quite a lot) into account I am over the deferment limit and they have informed me I will have to pay back 169 per month.

Is their any way I can still defer, it doesn't seem fair that the can change the rules on me.

mrsbug · 28/03/2014 11:58

Wrt the childcare vouchers, the argument is that they are taken as a salary sacrifice, which reduces your gross income for the purposes of tax. The website of my childcare vouchers provider actually states that one of the benefits of using them is to reduce student loan payments. However the question is whether the slc were legally obliged to allow this or whether it is something that erudio can get away with changing?

OP posts:
giljnr · 28/03/2014 14:11

I would strongly suggest that everyone obtain a copy of their current Credit File BEFORE Erudio make any acceptance of a deferment.

That way, should they proceed with the CRA recording as described in the deferment documents, you have evidence of your Credit File both before & after the fact to submit a complaint (after going through Erudio's complaints process first and receiving a final reply) to FOS, who will levy a £550 automatic fine just for receiving the escalated dispute.

waitingforgoddot · 30/03/2014 21:20

This is really bothering me. I received my normal deferment letter in early March, it was an SLC deferment letter that looked exactly the same as all the others I have filled out. I just filled it in and sent it back because I have never received any information at all saying my loan had been sold. nor did I hear about it in the media. When I received a letter from Erudio Student Loans I had to google them. They say I have not sent them enough info yet to defer and they are asking for a ridiculous amount of very personal info that simply can not be right. I had sent them the figures as requested and the, as I am self employed, a letter from my accountant confirming my previous years tax return - the same as I always have. I am really worried that I have agreed to things I had no idea I was agreeing to!
My husband is a para legal thank goodness and is going to help, but I can't believe this is allowed. When were these intro packs sent out?

LittleMissGreen · 30/03/2014 23:46

Waiting I have only had my intro 'pack' for a week. Not had deferment forms yet.

erudioed · 31/03/2014 09:37

be careful because the original packs ask for consent to supply info to CRA's (which i assume no one would return voluntarily), whereas the deferment packs make this implicit in the signing of the deferment form. They say CRA's will list you as being in deferment and not as a defaulter...but it seems like a punishment to me if we are listed on such places even though we have done nothing wrong and are just deferred, fulfilling all our obligations of the original agreement. The original loan agreement says in 12 (b) that this info will only be handed over if we default.
waitingforgoddot: Maybe you could ask your husband if this breeches the terms and conditions with SLC. Concerning other info, i asked erudio about it and got a less than satisfactory reply as to why they need info SLC didnt. Plus, SLC should have handed all this info over, including all our correspondence i would imagine, so asking for such info like NI number would be on our original agreements makes it look like they may not have it all or just cant be bothered going through all our files and collating the info. I dont know what that would mean legally. Do we just say, all that info is in our original info we signed with SLC.
It is best if everyone lodges complaints with erudio, it is very easy. Thats the only way anyone will know if they have gone outside of any legal matters. If they dont answer satisfactorily, we can go to the ombudsman...if erudio is found to have done something wrong, then they will be automatically fined. And this is only of the only ways these businesses "hear their customers".
I feel we all need to undertake the same courses of action and complain about these problem issues if the deferment process is to to glide by for the next 1-10 years.
I have a feeling they may have a deal with CRA's to pass on info for their huge databases, to a) get paid a little for the info because CRA's sell such info to businesses, or b) to do free full checks on everyone without having to check/pay for each individual check. Either way, it is at the expense of us all because we end up on CRA's lists, and according to Erudio's last page of their deferment letter, people in the houses we live in could have their credit ratings affected (a threat that makes people worry and potentially turn from being a legal deferer into a worried/struggling payer...a goal one would think of Erudio). If we could find out definitively where we stand legally it would be a help.
Not to mention the other breeches to our agreements posted in this thread that are making people worry and that, if like me, have caused much lost sleep in the last month or so!

LittleMissGreen · 31/03/2014 10:12

Erudioed do you think there might be a no win no fee type lawyer about somewhere we could go an see about this?
Or maybe we could all contribute a tenner, formulate a list of questions and someone go on our behalf to see a lawyer to see where we stand?

erudioed · 31/03/2014 10:24

i have no idea, i am not a specialist in any of this. Your idea sounds like a good one though. Im not in the uk, so it isnt too easy for me to find such thiings. If a number of us bit at the idea, i think it could be a good thing indeed and i would be happy to contribute/help.

LittleMissGreen · 31/03/2014 10:50

I currently have a large number of uni assignments to hand in on Friday, after which I intend to spend a bit more time digging into the SLC sale, writing letters etc.

erudioed · 31/03/2014 12:41

Right, after a whole 4 hours of phone calls, starting with nationaldentlineuk, to the financial ombudsman, to the financial conduct authority, to the student loans company and finally told to go back to the department for business innovation and skills (BIS),where i found out the only place/address to complain to about these loans, other than the official process complaining to erudio first and then the financial ombudsman.
It is this email address at BIS: [email protected]
IF anyone has a complaint to lodge in general about erudio about the loans sale/issues thus encountered, i encourage everyone to mail this address. I was told to include as much information as possible in the mail, outlining as much as possible, encounters, problems etc etc.
My own search today mainly focused on agreement to pass on info to CRAs being tied up with our deferments and additional info they want that may breech our original terms and conditions.
The financial ombudsman agent i spoke to said he thought SLC might have agreed to Erudion passing on info to CRAs in their new agreement and that it 'might' be legal because all debt collection companies are obliged to do this. But he was not 100% sure and suggested calling the financial conduct authority...they said student loans were outside what they deal with and call SLC. The SLC agent, after hearing my 2 main complaints said they certainly seem to have breached our agreement/original T&Cs...but, i didnt exactly have 100% confidence in him or his replies, as he didnt seem that engaged/bothered. The guy at BIS in the complaints dept said to email (what i list above) the complaint to him and it will get passed onto sheffield, where they will investigate and reply in a letter.
I strongly suggest everyone with any complaint they think is legitimate to write to this email address offering a full account of all gripes and what you think has been breached. A personal account is what they want, so not just a reproduced letter i think. BUT, and a big but, dont forget to complain to erudio about anything you feel they have breeched the T&C's, it is my understanding that everything must start there. However, complaining to BIS is slightly different and i assume can be concurrent.
Hope it helps and keep mailing, we all need to know!

LittleMissGreen · 31/03/2014 12:55

Brilliant! Thanks erudioed.

Qubit · 31/03/2014 20:05

I have just got off the phone with Erudio. I wasn't sure what to expect but the person I spoke to was quite pleasant and polite. After some discussion I managed to get this reply as to what items need filling out on the deferral form to avoid it being returned:

NI
Confirmation of address
DOB

Current Accnt / DD mandate.

And obviouslt I believe section 9 (total gross monthly income declaration), which obviously includes signing it. I voiced my dissatisfaction with the part highlighted at the bottom of this section about passing details etc on to CRAs.

In the end she asked me if I wanted to make a complaint about it, which I have duly done. (queried the legality of it basically as Im not in default). They will get back to me within 24hrs of tomorrow apparently. The maximum amount of time for this is 8 weeks before I can then go to the ombudsman. I asked what would happen to my deferrment in this time; she said she couldnt extend it at this time. I have no idea if this means deferrment could be extended due to a complaints process - perhaps someone else could try calling to find out more??

erudioed · 31/03/2014 20:15

yep, i was told it is extended but i would call to check they have it noted on your account. I was told the same about 24 hour reply after i logged a complaint but when i called to find the answer, it was again a deceit because the new person told me they mailed to tell me they have my compliant within 24hours but that the reply will take up to 8 weeks. The account will be on hold till then.
I have communicated with a couple of people now about 2 specific things and different answers have been given to each by erudio, and in my case, 3 pieces of conflicting information about the things i am peeved about with a few different people at erudio.
They have been trained to be nice, i was told that by BIS.