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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

AIBU to think that pensioners are NOT victims?

160 replies

SugarMouse1 · 23/10/2012 21:43

Sorry, but they have had about 40 years where jobs were very easy to get

It was comparitively easy for them to buy a house

They could have easily got a council/HA house (where the rent is FA) if they couldn't afford to buy a house......

They should have saved up for their retirement themselves, the taxpayer should not be subsidising them- Young people now can't retire until well into their seventies!

OP posts:
sneezecakesmum · 26/10/2012 15:33

Hand washed undergarments are on the line. Just about to walk the the postbox as I've not got a bus pass.

[hgrin]

amillionyears · 26/10/2012 15:35

SugarMouse1,I dont know if you are for real or not. I too find you funny,but on the other hand "A pensioner doesnt need one[washing machine] because they have all the time in the world to hand-wash the clothes".
With respect to pensioners,have you seen many.They are near the end of their lives,and are in various states of health.
Me thinks you may be about 16 years of age! Hmm

amillionyears · 26/10/2012 15:38

ooh, I now have an urge to post like you do!

amillionyears · 26/10/2012 15:39

what do you want the taxes to get paid on?
skateboards,free sweets for the under 20s and free cinema pass once a week.
and the back rows to be kept free for the under 25s

amillionyears · 26/10/2012 15:42

How many children ar you going to have?
better not have any because you may get ill,or not have a job further down the line,because income is never guaranteed.

amillionyears · 26/10/2012 15:43

Didnt realise how easy it is to post like this!

evilkitten · 26/10/2012 15:50

It's fascinating how many people remember the 15% mortgage rates, despite them being in place for less than a week. And interesting how much this is mentioned (along with 98% top rate tax), yet MIRAS, 10% VAT, final salary pension schemes etc. are conveniently overlooked. There is little point in prentending that the baby boomers had it hard - the evidence isn't there to support the assertion. A few anecdotes about some people struggling does not overcome the overwhelming data that demonstrates how well this generation has done.

The baby boomers are now retiring - many have retired early - and the cost of their pensions is going to cripple us. Pensions, as was mentioned in this thread, form by far the largest share of the benefits spend in the UK. This is paid for out of taxation - it's not in a magic NI pot saved for the purpose. Occupational pensions are similarly afflicted - BA has been referred to as a pension deficit that flies some planes round, and many of the other former nationalised industries are in the same position. Public sector pensions are generally unfunded (although there are a few that aren't).

The people who will pay the pensions of the baby boomers is the working population. Not the baby boomers. They paid the pensions of their parents - a far smaller group, and a group with a lower life expectancy.

I suspect that those below the age of 40 now are unlikely to receive any non-means tested state pension when they retire.

A point has also been made about the current young being in debt and subsidised housing. Perhaps that poster should go and look at the stock of social housing 'then' and 'now', and reflect on where it has gone? I'd suggest that most of it has passed into the ownership of the baby boomers - at below market value.

Similarly for the debt - where has the money actually gone? A lot was borrowed during the baby-boomers lifetime by the government, thus reducing their taxation. However, I suspect you're probably talking about consumer debt. I imagine some has gone on iPods and tellies, but the majority has been spent on housing. And who is selling housing ... ? As I said in an earlier post, there is a massive inter-generational wealth transfer taking place, it's going the wrong way, and this is a problem.

There is an debt attitude problem with today's young, and an over-easy reliance on credit. the figures for unsecured debt and payday loans are frankly frightening. I'd question whether this is a generational thing though - I suspect that previously, people were unable to go overdrawn/take out loans, and so were unable to spend below zero. With the availiability of credit, that perception of zero has just moved. There is an unhealthy normalisation of debt by expecting people to fund a university education on credit - if you've graduated with a net worth of -£30,000, then te concept of not living beyond your means is a bit academic.

Now I may be a hating ageist twat fostering a age-divisive hatred or whatever it was, but I'd suggest that there is a huge problem in the UK (and elsewhere), and pretending that it doesn't exist isn't going to get you anywhere.

exoticfruits · 26/10/2012 15:55

I will mention to my 90 year old mother that she doesn't need a washing machine because she has all the time in the world to hand wash her sheets.

amillionyears · 26/10/2012 16:05

Her feet wont be doing much,exotic,she should be treading grapes all at the same time!

sneezecakesmum · 26/10/2012 16:11

Bugger....my mangle has broken! I'll have to live in these threadbare rags until DH get his old job back of climbing up chimneys Grin

JakeBullet · 26/10/2012 16:12

I can answer that..sugarmouse is NOT real. Nobody is THAT black and white. I am thinking IDS in disguise personally.

Actually sugarmouse gasped me until the hand washing post, then I realised......troll.

sneezecakesmum · 26/10/2012 16:23

Yes Jake, its quite obviously a piss take. Unfortunately dragging some poor half witted sods who do not function in normal society along in his/her wake. I stopped taking this seriously long before I had to hand wash my bloomers Grin

mirry2 · 26/10/2012 18:24

Well sugar mouse. expat et al aren't I the lucky one!. My own house, prospect of a state pension, free bus pass and fuel payment. Doncha wish you were me? Grin Wink

expatinscotland · 26/10/2012 18:34

It's too bad there can't be a serious discussion without some people coming in, make it personal and dumbing it all down with a bunch of nonsense like that.

mirry2 · 26/10/2012 18:38

expat don't make me laugh.

expatinscotland · 26/10/2012 18:39

Some people aren't worth winding up.

Peachy · 26/10/2012 18:46

In the town I grew up, the two big employers were bought out by US companies that then used the pensions fund to clear asbestos lawsuits (as is legal there): my Dad, who DID pay into a pension all his life, is one of many people who simply watched it disappear: Dad is still working now aged 70, he hs gone from factory manager to cleaner in a meat recovery plant, but he can't afford to stop: sadly he can;t really keep going either, his health is shot and he has no sensation below one knee so cycling to work is getting harder and harder.

So no i don't think all pensioners now have it easy, or that they gave nothing. many will have, again like dad, have very hard childhoods before the state support properly kicked in- dad was 16th child in a low income house and started working and stealing just to eat aged 5.

EscapeInTheCity · 26/10/2012 18:55

One of the really gig issue with pensions is the way they have being set up ie a redistribution system
So we have babyboomers who have paid taxes until the title of pension. That money went into... paying pensions for people who were retired at the time (so in effect my parents paying my grand parents pension) and NOT into building a fund for their own pension. That was OK because the number of working adults was much bigger than the number of pensioners.
Now we have a situation that is completely opposite. Less working adults and more pensioners. The system of redistribution doesn't anymore.

So the system used to give pensions to people was fraud to start with.

On the top of that, people have made to believe that the state WOULD pay them a pension well they should shouldn't they, they have paid taxes for that all their lives). It is only recently that having you own private pension has become a real necessity and it has become clear that having a build up nest for yourself was a necessity not just something nice. Remember, it's not that long ago that final salary pension disappeared (Actually some still do unless I am mistaken).
So for the baby boomers there was no need to save up. They thought it was taken care by the state.

The issue here is that you can't blame them to have believed what they had been told and tell them now they should have done X or Y. You can not hold them responsible. But you can hold responsible the politicians etc... that didn't take any action until they had to and were careful not to say the truth so people could be prepared.

SugarMouse1 · 26/10/2012 19:12

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SugarMouse1 · 26/10/2012 19:17

EscapeiNTHEcity-

No-one knew how things would turn out- but that doesn't mean that no-one is responsible and shouldn't have saved any money.

It doesn't mean people shouldn't have lived sensibly- IMO even a lottery winner should- because you don't know what will happen in the future.

and you do have to think very carefully about your circumstances before you have kids and how many you have.

OP posts:
exoticfruits · 26/10/2012 19:22

It costs a lot more to means test-a lot of them give it away if they don't need it.

exoticfruits · 26/10/2012 19:23

The WFA that is.

EscapeInTheCity · 26/10/2012 19:27

Sugar they HAVE lived sensibly. They have lived sensibly believing what they have being told ie they would receive some money each month at around their final salary.

So what they did was to save for their house, pay their mortgage, pay for their dcs to go to Uni and perhaps spend more money for 'less useful things'. But these things are exactly the ones that fuelled the economy and gave jobs to people. (Unlike when you save it and pout it onto a saving account)

EscapeInTheCity · 26/10/2012 19:28

And it's not that they haven't saved money. They have saved the money they thought they would need. A very different matter.

exoticfruits · 26/10/2012 19:30

I wouldn't worry-if they get ill and infirm it will all go in care home fees.