AIBU to think that pensioners are NOT victims?

[SugarMouse1]

Sorry, but they have had about 40 years where jobs were very easy to get

It was comparitively easy for them to buy a house

They could have easily got a council/HA house (where the rent is FA) if they couldn't afford to buy a house......

They should have saved up for their retirement themselves, the taxpayer should not be subsidising them- Young people now can't retire until well into their seventies!

My parents...now pensionable age...had to struggle to keep the house they bought for £10000 you see it balances out, their wages were pathetically low by modern standards, so £10000 to them in the seventies is akin to a hefty mortgage today. I honestly think that we get things too easy these days.. this now now now culture has got us into the state we are in and pointing the finger at the older generation is BU.

yabvu. My parents are coming up to retirement age and I am worried about how they will cope. They still have a few years left to pay on their mortgage. They were affected by the recession in the eighties when dad lost his job and had to move from Wales to south - took on a large mortgage, then house prices crashed. He then had to relocate to midlands where house prices had crashed even further. They lost quite a bit of money. Dad has work pension but its value plummetted so now its not worth very much at all. Mum has been unable to work for the past 15-20 years and prior to that was only on min wage-type jobs. She has no pension (other than state). They have no savings.

Personally, I think we need to stop comparing our own situation with others and try to sort out the difference between wages and cost of living.

"It's the baby boomers that piss me off. "

Why? Because they happened to be born in a 20 - 30 year regeneration period post a couple of terrible wars and took advantage of the conditions that created?

"jobs were easy to get"

Clearly you didn't grow up where I did and see thousands of men in their 20s - 50s lose their jobs when the pits closed. You could repeat that about steelworks, shipbuilding, manufacturing etc.

My dad was self employed so no final salary pension for him. He saved his whole life and invested money for his retirement. The income generated from those investments is far lower than expected due to the recession.

Some pensioners are doing ok, some aren't. Its impossible to generalise to the extent you are. There is, perhaps, an arguement to be made for means testing certain things but I wouldn't support as I think the savings made minus administrative costs won't even make a dent in the defecit. It would also leave pensioners with no family support vulnerable to missing out.

There are so many things wrong with your post OP and the way you see things that I wont waste my time explaining as I dont think you are going to get it or change your POV. Just to say that you are being VVVU!

bought houses far cheaper as multiple of wages than young people can today. Average house prices were 3.25 x average male salary in the last 100 years. At the peak of the last boom house prices were 6 x average male salary.

Houses are 3 times salary.
Back then, it was 3 times the man's salary because women didn't work.
Now it's 3 times the joint salary.
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

You're not being unreasonable at all. It suits the interests of Age Concern etc. to pretend that pensioners are victims, and it suits the needs of politicians to provide benefits to this growing and voting section of the population. However, the two key things to keep in the back of your mind are:

1. The over-sixties are the wealthiest section of society, and
2. Pensioners are the least likely age group to be in poverty.

There are, of course, struggling pensioners. However, it's hard to see the case for universal benefits in this age group. Winter Fuel Payment is an abomination, and should be means tested or scrapped.

As for 'free' bus passes, I'd like these to be provided to the 16-24 age group. It would help the real struggling generation to access education and work, and reduce dependence on car transport. It might also be positive for road safety!

There's also been mention of house prices on this thread, with one poster mentioning that their parents paid a fortune for a house in the seventies. Houses have always been expensive, but a few things have changed.

Firstly, MIRAS was abolished, so there is no tax-relief available on mortgage payments as there was then. However, the more important change has been in inflation. The poster's parents would have paid £10,000 with a mortgage in the seventies, but in the eighties, this mortgage would have been negligible against the price of the house and earnings. This is not the case today - if you buy a house with a big mortgage, you will have to pay off a big mortgage.

A couple of wealthy pensioners receiving £200/year between them for the WFA hardly makes them 'a victim'. One of the few other universal benefits - child benefit - equated to £1,040/year and I don't think anyone is accusing upper-income families of playing 'victim' when they argue to retain it.

Ok Sirzy:

You do realise then that a Polish baby would literally starve to death if the parents lost their jobs?

But you think thats fine because they are Polish!!! Unbelievable!

A lot of british born chavs have never worked and can claim loads if they have children.

Make it a rule that no-one who hasn't worked at least two years can get any benefits, even if they have a young baby!

evilkitten- you make some really good points.

EnglishGirl- Part of the reason for those closures was because those people did bloody nothing anyway- except go on strike!

Tango- they should just be grateful they ever bought a house- young people now can't!

reindeer- You would have to be in your 90's now to have fought in ww2- thats a small minority of them!

I agree, MoreBeta. The WFA age needs to increase to 70. And no more free bus passes for over 60s. Ridiculous. Means everyone else has to pay higher fares whether these over 60s need it or not.

'pensioners went without in a very big way. You probably can't even imagine it. Moan when you haven't got your laptop or your fancy phone and can only eat meat once a week, no cigarrettes, booze, a coal fire in one room, no clothes budget, no washing machine, no tumble drier, no dishwasher, clothes that lasted twenty years and just accepting that as life and doing everything you could for the family and the children.'

Plenty of them did not go without in a very big way, and you're assuming all people today have laptops, fancy phones, eat meat, smoke, etc., as is your typical fashion.

Sugar mouse. My Dad is 63 and has just lost his job again. He's really shitting himself about making ends meet as he had planned to work until he was nearly 70, as he was struggling to get back on his feet financially after a couple of years out of work after his last redundancy. He has no chance of finding another job now.

And you say "tough shit".

Lovely, just lovely.

Here's a

And one from me

As one of the baby boomers that you are so annoyed with I though I would comment. My dh started receiving his pension in January which means that we are now getting back some of the money that we have contributed in tax and national insurance.

We used to have our own printing business but due to the fact that so much manufacturing went abroad the printing work went. In the end we sold the company for £100 which meant that the other workers were able to keep their jobs and we took early retirement. Dh tried to get other work and did manage to work part-time. I can't work because of ill health. We have been living on savings - we down sized and moved from the south east to the south west where property is cheaper.

We did everything we should do but things go wrong. We are now just about managing.

OP I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about.

sugarmouse you are so irrational you are actually funny!

"as is your typical fashion" ?

leave it out expat

I'm assuming the OP has a computer, yes. What do you think?

Evil kitten. On what research do you base you assertions the over 60s are comparatively wealthy and not in poverty?

Also a baby boomer I worked from the age of 16 to 61 paying national insurance and tax, as has my husband. I also brought up a family never claiming anything other than the pittance that was child benefit (now much increased!) . We had to scrimp and scrape to buy our house, we never had expensive holidays or cars. We have supported our children by our own efforts, not had children and expected the state to support them. We have helped both our children to get on the housing ladder and they both work.

I have a tiny private pension and a crappy state pension. Ditto my husband. Pensions we have already paid for over the years!

We weren't the ones borrowing ridiculous unaffordable amounts on credit cards, or fuelling the financial crash.

Believe you me darling, you are not subsidising me! I have worked for everything I have!

'I'm assuming the OP has a computer, yes. What do you think? '

Maybe she's at a library or a friend's house. Maybe she runs her own business and is using the computer there. You assume a lot, like that people go out drinking and smoking and eating takeaways and that all pensioners lived lives of deprivation.

sneeze don't forget the fact that if up do have a bit of money as a pensioner you might end up having to hand it over for your care as you get older. Because the days of pensioners being cared for by their kids is long gone now most families have both adults working.

So if you didnt save up you're a parasite, if you did you're screwed anyway. Nice.