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Original poster

AIBU to think that pensioners are NOT victims?

160 replies

SugarMouse1 · 23/10/2012 21:43

Sorry, but they have had about 40 years where jobs were very easy to get

It was comparitively easy for them to buy a house

They could have easily got a council/HA house (where the rent is FA) if they couldn't afford to buy a house......

They should have saved up for their retirement themselves, the taxpayer should not be subsidising them- Young people now can't retire until well into their seventies!

OP posts:
Sneezecakesmama · 25/10/2012 20:58

Yes. I have modest savings in case I need a new roof etc. earning nil in interest and just waiting to be taken along with my house when I'm decrepit! Personally I shall be booking myself into Dignitas before I go into a care home Grin

Sneezecakesmama · 25/10/2012 21:11

Oh and don't forget the army of grandparents who childcare their grandchildren for free so their grown up children can work. (Like I do) Not to mention those also looking after their own very elderly parents and saving the state millions.

Hardly parasitic, more like valid members of the community who supported themselves throughout their lives and are still helping support others. Maybe the real parasites are located nearer the OPs own age group and this is just a bit of a mud slinging smokescreen?

mummyonvalium · 25/10/2012 21:29

YABVVVVU - I feel really strongly about this issue.

OP (and others who support her), if you had worked 40 years of your life, almost without a break and contributed to society by paying taxes would you not expect to get a little something back from that society at the end of your life?

The assumption that it is always possible to save up is unfair - people who have worked their butts off in labouring or admin jobs would not have had spare cash to save up; people who dedicate their lives to voluntary work that no-one else wants to do or would not be doable; and people who have just fallen on hard times - they should be entitled to be looked after by the state.

I think the nature of this thread is very telling about how elderly people in our community are treated. Do you really think it is fair that if they can't afford to live they should be left to die because that is essentially what this thread is saying?

Brycie · 25/10/2012 21:33

Yes, maybe she's at the library. And only eats meat once a week and doesn't have a washing machine or dishwasher and had to walk three miles to school and has no fancy phone and a coal fire in one room and hasn't had new clothes for five years etc etc. That's what I'm betting on.

FivePhantomFlowers · 25/10/2012 21:56

Old people had no student debt

But how many 'old' people benefited from graduate salaries? Very often, a university education is only possible for people who have financially supportive parents.

And who are supporting today's students? The up-coming pensioners who posters are suggesting should not benefit from the allowances they are entitled to and have worked hard for during their lifetimes.

expatinscotland · 25/10/2012 21:58

'Yes, maybe she's at the library. And only eats meat once a week and doesn't have a washing machine or dishwasher and had to walk three miles to school and has no fancy phone and a coal fire in one room and hasn't had new clothes for five years etc etc. That's what I'm betting on.'

Just like I'm betting there are plenty of pensioners who didn't live a life of dire deprivation, either.

expatinscotland · 25/10/2012 21:59

The state pension system now is no more sustainable than any other welfare system in the country.

People are living longer and longer.

FivePhantomFlowers · 25/10/2012 22:07

Sneezecakes - that was my life too. Living hand to mouth, day by day through hard times. We rarely had holidays or any luxuries.

It wasn't easy to buy a house when I was young. In order to get a mortgage you had to save with the building society for years and only the husband's salary was taken into account.

In the 80s when my children were small, interest rates were at 15% at one point. That isn't easy!

We had no tax credits or help with childcare expenses. I was sacked for being pregnant with DC1 and received no benefits whatsoever.

My ex and I supported three DCS through university and worked hard all our lives from age 16 to the present day. I know when I claim my meagre state pension I will have earned it.

reindeerjumper · 25/10/2012 22:23

I didn't say fought, I said lived through the war. Children suffered greatly during the war.

expatinscotland · 25/10/2012 22:30

'I didn't say fought, I said lived through the war. Children suffered greatly during the war.'

And? Both my parents lived through the war. But even if you at 67 now, you were still born after the war.

mirry2 · 25/10/2012 23:02

OP you need a few history lessons

Most people didn go to university.There were two types of secondary school - grammar schools and secondary moderns. If your failed the 11 plus, which most did, you didn't have the opportunity to take GCE O levels and A levels and left school at 15 years old.

Pensions - personal pensions didn't exist and nor did company pensions, unless you worked for very large organisations like the NHS or civil service

Welfare benefits-no support for women with children outside marriage so they had to go out to work or rely on their parents. That is one reason why adoption and illegal aborton was rife.

Council housing - not easy to get a council house. My parents didn't have enough points and had to rent a flat from a private landlord.
home ownership - most didn't aspire to owning their own homes until the Right to Buy introduced by Margaret Thatcher in the 1980s.

employment - no employment laws relating to unfair dismissal, or equal pay for women

central heating, cars and holidays abroad were a luxury few could afford.

Original poster
SugarMouse1 · 25/10/2012 23:32

FivePhantom- it may have been difficult for you to buy a house, but its now impossible for most young people

Why can't you be grateful?

Why should you have got TC or help with childcare? They were your bloody children! Pay for them yourself!

Another argument to show they are not needed now!

OP posts:
Original poster
SugarMouse1 · 25/10/2012 23:38

mummyonvalium:

so some have worked for 40 years- this generation will work for far longer.

If they ever had any luxuries- then they could afford to save up. If they had birthday and xmas presents, a car, anything like that- then they were just bad with money and pissed it away. Loads of that generation smoke and drink btw.

And people on this thread have already said that a Polish baby should be left to die.......sick!

OP posts:
mirry2 · 25/10/2012 23:40

Sugarmouse1 you sound very bitter and rather naive. Where did you get your information from?

Original poster
SugarMouse1 · 25/10/2012 23:42

Sneezecakesmama-

Its a choice to look after grandchildren.

Goes to show that they can just as easily go and get a bloody job in McDonalds or somewhere.

Parents can afford childcare with all the bloody tax credits they receive.

Thats not an excuse for them to not work and milk the system.

OP posts:
Original poster
SugarMouse1 · 25/10/2012 23:52

Mirry2

-Council housing didn't become so difficult to get until Thatcher sold loads of it off! Its never been as hard as now!

-well, there shouldn't be benefits for parents to level they are at now- its not sustainable.

OP posts:
trixymalixy · 25/10/2012 23:54

What are you on sugarmouse? Hmm

Original poster
SugarMouse1 · 25/10/2012 23:55

Mirry2-

You sound brainwashed, where did you get your information? the daily mail?

OP posts:
evilkitten · 25/10/2012 23:56

sneezecakes,

It's a bit snide to refer to my points as assertions when a short spot of googling would have found you any number of references. However, I recommend you start with something like the Office for National Statistics' most recent publication on Pension Inequality here: www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/pensions/pension-trends/chapter-13--inequalities-and-poverty-in-retirement--2012-edition-/art-pt2012ch13.html?format=print

There is also analysis available from any number of think tanks, both left and right leaning.

The rest of your post seems to be quite defensive. I am interested in your assertion that you weren't fuelling the financial crash. If you weren't, who do you think was? Do you really think your life is a microcosm of society?

There are huge current issues with inter generational wealth transfer at present. Typically wealth trickles down to the younger generations, but at present, the younger generations are passing wealth up to their parents. We have single pensioners living in large houses, and families cramped into small flats. We have a lost generation of individuals who haven't been able to get on the career ladder for the last few years, and probably never will. They haven't caused the financial crash either, but they'll be the ones paying these bills and those left behind by the baby boomers.

The generation retiring now have sailed through life with a green light at every junction. The generations behind are not going to be so lucky.

mirry2 · 26/10/2012 00:00

Sugarmouse1, no I'm certanly nnot brainwashed. I lived through the era I'm talking about.
I'm really quite shocked at the level of resentment you are showing. You know nothing

Redbindy · 26/10/2012 00:02

OP I'm not sure what your point is. Buying a house and saving for retirement at the same time don't actually go together. Perhaps pensioners should have brought their children up to be not so stupid. I take it that you a bit grumpy because you might have to pay for your own life, if that's the case - welcome to the world.

mirry2 · 26/10/2012 00:10

Sugarmouse you seem to be hung up on the supposed plight of polish people. Are you polish by any chance?

trixymalixy · 26/10/2012 00:11

I'm also a bit confused what the OP's point is. British people shouldn't get any child related benefits and should pay for their children themselves, yet Polish immigrants should get benefits otherwise their babies might die? Seems a bit contradictory to me. Hmm

Original poster
SugarMouse1 · 26/10/2012 00:16

mirry2- no I'm not Polish

However I'm sick of this attitude of blaming 'immigrants' for everything

OP posts:
trixymalixy · 26/10/2012 00:18

However it's fine to blame pensioners for everything Hmm