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Miscarriage/pregnancy loss

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Recurrent Miscarriage Support Thread 30 - Support for Tests, Treatments and Trying Again

765 replies

forestnest · 04/09/2015 12:30

Support, hugs, a wealth of collective knowledge and lots of hand holding as we try again. This thread moves like lightning so prepare to read fast!

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/miscarriage/2441180-Recurrent-Miscarriage-Support-Thread-29-Support-for-Tests-Treatments-and-Trying-Again

(stats etc to follow)

OP posts:
Murphymoo84 · 07/11/2016 12:14

Hi all,
I have got fed up waiting for the NHS to see me and have self referred to Dr Shehata. Has anyone else seen him? Or any other Dr privately? What questions should I be asking? Any help gratefully received!!

user1478555177 · 08/11/2016 22:35

Hi ladies

Me 33
Dh 34
1st mc 4w5d April 2016
2nd mc 4w6d may 2016
3rd mmc 16wks oct 2016

Can any one offer some advice on this please. I have mc 3x times this year, 2 were very early & had blood test to test hormone levels which come back ok. 3rd pregnancy seemed to go ok at first. Had 12 wk scan & see a healthy active baby. Had midwife appt at 15w4d & she couldn't find a heartbeat. A scan confirmed this & they said that baby had probably died around 14 wks. I had to have some tablets in hospital that put me into labour to give birth to it as they said that I was too far gone for a d&c.
I want to try again but not sure on how long my body physically needs to recover as they never told me about any aftercare.
Also does anyone know what they test for when the baby goes in the lab as this only happened 2 wks ago & I don't know if I will get any results back on why it died & if they would tell me whether it was a boy or girl.
Any advice would be much appreciated please

bananafish81 · 09/11/2016 00:53

Murphy A friend was fobbed off by the NHS - she went to St Marys RMC and had all the usual tests and was told she was just unlucky and to keep trying. She miscarried again (4th mc - 3rd in 11 months). Went to see Shehata a year ago. Got diagnosed & treated for immunes - had a baby girl last week.

He’ll take a very different approach to the Coventry clinic - he’ll run the Chicago tests for peripheral blood NK cells / cytokines (& may recommend Humira) whereas Prof Quenby & Brosens @ Coventry don’t rate peripheral blood tests and do the endometrial biopsy for uterine NK cells

Other immunes Drs for recurrent miscarriage include Dr Gorgy and Dr Ndukwe @ Zita West. ARGC great for IVF but won’t support you if your issue is staying pregnant rather than getting pregnant

user I’m so sorry for your loss. I would assume that the testing will include histology (i.e. looking at the tissue under the microscope) and cytogenetics (i.e. looking for chromosomal abnormalities). The latter will say whether the baby was a boy or a girl, but we asked the Dr not to give us the report as we didn’t feel ready to know (my loss was only @ 10w but as we had the ERPC done privately, we were able to pay for the tissue testing)

If the mc was due to chromosomal abnormalities then the testing will tell you which one(s)

If the baby was genetically normal, then the testing will tell you what DIDN’T cause the mc (i.e. it wasn’t chromosomal), but it won’t tell you what did. That’s where the various recurrent miscarriage tests come in

My pregnancies were IVF so we couldn’t start trying again straight away, but if we were able to TTC naturally then Dr said they normally recommend one natural period first to let the endometrium recover, and then it’s just whenever you’re ready

Many women decide to hold off TTC again until they’ve had more investigations, but it’s entirely up to you

bananafish81 · 09/11/2016 00:54

PS the Fertility Friends section on 'Miscarriage' in the Immunes FAQ is very helpful about tests and questions

www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=242395.msg3904730#msg3904730

Murphymoo84 · 09/11/2016 10:20

Thanks banana. That's really helpful and great to hear the positive story. Fingers crossed. I'm pretty sure one more MC will make me very fragile indeed as it does seem to become harder each time to pick myself up so let's hope for the best.
User, I'm so sorry that you are having to go through this. All mine have been before 12 weeks so I'm unsure of the process but banana seems to offer some good info. Please look after yourself and don't be afraid to ask for help from your GP. Mine has been great it's all the other NHS areas we have struggled with. I'm going to give this guy a go and see what he says. Like you User I need answers and cannot keep trying and risking a similar outcome. I wish you both all the very best going forward and will report back once I've had my appointment xxx

user1478555177 · 09/11/2016 22:30

Thanks for the advice
I went to docs today to see if any results were taken and she said that baby seemed normal but the umbilical cord was inflamed.
Has anyone heard of this causing a mc & if so what caused it.
She is now saying that I could of had an infection & is testing me and also asking if I've got a history of blood clots in family.
Not sure what she means by this yet

Murphymoo84 · 09/11/2016 23:42

I think I've read that thick blood clotting is one of the things they test the mother for. I've heard of a number of people being prescribed Asprin to thin the blood slightly. Don't just take it though as it's important the dosage is correct to match you. Blood too thin and the same result can sadly occur. I feel at times like bloody anything could cause us this heartache and no one really knows. But answers are so important. I've started writing a list of ?'s on my phone when I think of them. That way when I'm stressed out in the clinic and my mind goes blank they're all there. Maybe try that too with your ?'s re: today? Ask them to call you and speak over the phone - they will often do so especially if you are distressed which obviously we all are. XxX

jaffacakes16 · 10/11/2016 09:18

Hi ladies, can I join in? Haven't quite caught up with all that's happening on this thread but it seems to be where all the mc advice is.

Have just been to see specialist privately who wants to put me on aspirin, heparin and progesterone (all preventative as far as I know nothing found on my bloods), clomid (I am ovulating but very late so this would be to ov earlier)and thyroxin for a borderline thyroid result.

I'm rather terrified by all these drugs, so much for my aspirations for a fluffy drug free pregnancy.

Any exerience on side effects/experiences of taking this lot would be much appreciated.

Stats 2 early mc, nc, age 33

Loopyaboutmy2boys · 14/11/2016 10:43

I'm an old timer from this thread. We moved across to Facebook so a lot of us haven't been on here for a long time, but thought this might be of interest to some of you now, and might save you some of the heartache.

My history is I always get pregnant every month we ttc. I had a son in 2010 and another son in 2012. Had mc1 sept 2013 and then had a mmc with ERPC in March 2014. I then had another MC Jan 2015 when would have been about 5-5 1/2 weeks. I had standard NHS tests and everything came back normal apart from they said I tested positive for lupus anti coagulant. Great news they said, it's one of the most treatable causes of Mc. They prescribed baby aspirin, clexane and progesterone just in case. I went away full of hope. I then had early MC in March, May, June, July and August 2015. Over these months I had tried various combinations of progesterone from 7 dpo, progesterone from BFP, progesterone from 14dpo even if I knew I had a BFP, was told after the March MC that they though aspirin could be harmful and to stop that, clexane from BFP, clexane from just after ovulation. I went to Coventry in Nov 2015. Was told everything was normal re my lining etc and NK cells were very normal, but that I had ovaries covered in cysts. To their credit I was prescribed metformin which I have been on for nearly 11 months now. I again thought great, this is a reason, get the ovaries sorted and all will be well. The NHS consultant meanwhile told me to try clomid as it would shorten my cycles. I followed their advice and did clomid in Jan and Feb 2016, whilst also following prof B's advice to use progesterone from 7dpo. No bfps for those 2 cycles which is so unlike me as I get pregnant every time. Prof B thinks progesterone has a contraceptive effect on me. I have since been told by prof q that in research more babies were born to those on a placebo than to those taking progesterone and the statistics were the same re people taking clexane. So anyhow, prof B said to take progesterone from 14 dpo and that he didn't see any point me taking clomid as I am ovulating fine. I had MC's in March, May, July and August, the last one prof Q said to not bother taking any drugs as they clearly weren't working. I'd gone back to see her via the NHS in July and Sept (you just need to ask your GP for a referral). She ran more extensive tests than the usual NHS ones plus repeated some I'd already had and everything was normal, including the lupus anti coagulant test showing as negative. She said all they could do is offer a repeat scratch and biopsy to see if my NK levels were low as a one off blip last year and might be higher now. Whilst there this time they also did a new test called cd138 which tests for some sort of infection. I begged them to let me try prednisolone (I've asked them several times before) but they said that unless their tests come back as high NK they can't do anything. They also can't put me on their sitagliptin trial as my cycles are not less than 32 days long. Prof B told me he believes my issue is that I'm having ectopic pregnancies and said only IVF will help me.

Now at this point I was feeling rather hopeless, but struggling to believe him, they had previously said it was bad luck and just need a good embryo, but after 12 losses I don't believe they were all abnormal and I don't believe that someone would have 10 ectopics in a row that would all resolve themselves without medication intervention.

The group I am part of consists of at least 3 others who have been told the ectopic theory by prof B. One now has a baby (not via IVF) and 2 are very much pregnant and again not via IVF, but by taking prednisolone. One of these I spoke to more than the others as she was much more active on our threads. She had a similar pattern, lots of early losses, and after Coventry and the ectopic/IVF scenario, she went to see Mr Shehata on the NHS. She was diagnosed with high blood NK's and the next pregnancy she had didn't end in a MC, and she is now about 17 weeks. So I asked my GP to be referred to Mr Shehata at Epsom Hospital. I went and had the tests and went for my results last week. I also have high blood NK's and my lupus anti coagulant test is showing positive again and they said that unlike other doctors, they think your TSH should be below 2 or it could cause a MC (normal is viewed as being up to 5, mine is 3.75 but it is their belief that it needs to be below 2). They have now put me on a new protocol, thyroxine to start immediately and take until after a baby is born, prednisolone from ovulation, and then from a BFP progesterone, fragim, ranitidine plus some supplements that I was already taking. I will resume ttc at the end of dec/start of Jan depending on when I ovulate and I'm really hopeful that I now have the real reason for having so many losses.

I backed the wrong horse 12 months ago. I was so convinced by the Coventru theory but I've come to realise that whilst they mean well, they are guessing as much as anyone else. They used to give progesterone and clexane as standard to everyone. They have told me that apart from the select few that have low prog levels or a blood clotting problem, they are not likely to make a difference. They won't give pred unless your uterine NK levels are high. Yet I know of 3 people without even trying to look hard who found they had high blood NK's and it was pred that made the difference. So either way, high uterine NK or high blood NK the treatment is the same, unless you pay privately for either intralipids or IVIG, but the people I'm referring to were on just pred. It's looking more likely that pred is the key and it doesn't matter how the NK's are diagnosed, and that the blood tests are showing a better result and that the level of uterine cells can vary month on month.

So to anyhow who reads this, whilst I appreciate all Coventry tried to do, I think they are perhaps too blinkered and that if you can get your GP to refer you to Shehata's clinic in Epsom it could be the best thing you may ever do.

I hope to be joining the people I know in getting a sticky BFP soon and I will email prof B to let him know as they do have the best intentions, but putting all my hopes into Coventry has wasted a year of my life and another 4 losses and I am hoping by sharing my sorry tale it might help others from doing the same.

Loopyaboutmy2boys · 14/11/2016 10:45

Oh and I also had a hysteroscopy in March 2016 and apart from a few small adhesions that were removed everything looked normal, lining was decent thickness. Lining was also decent at the first biopsy at Coventry in Nov 2015, and when having follicle tracking Jan 2016, and when I went back to Coventry this month - 9.5mm.

Loopyaboutmy2boys · 14/11/2016 10:45

Oh and the metformin has worked and my ovaries this month looked perfectly normal so that's not something that could be causing problems now either!!

user1491772642 · 10/05/2017 18:48

Hi Loopy, thanks for sharing ur story!! very glad to hear such positive stories.. I m new to this thread and jus following all the posts.. I also felt the same about Coventry and moved to Dr.Shehata..Like you, my uNK cells were normal but high blood NK and hence been prescribed prednisolone and intralipid infusions.. I m hoping it hepls this time..have had 6 miscarriages so far but havent been prescribed prednisolone, only progesterone and Clexane so far..
How r u getting on? Good luck!!

tina431 · 26/06/2018 19:49

To anyone considering seeing Mr Shehata... please think again . He is the kind of doctor that is capitalizing on our misery and desperation to find a solution to our repeated miscarriages. After paying several thousand pounds for appointments and test, I sent him a question about the medication by email and his assistants told me that in order for him to answer I have to pay 250 pounds . I told them I don’t live in the Uk and I can’t trav l there just for an appointment, and that I did not need a consultation it was just a clarification about medication he had already prescribed and sold to me. Still he refused to answer without payment , puttting me in a corner and now I am totally lost and not sure whether to continue the medicine or not, and this after he had told me that I could email him if I had any questions as I live overseas. I feel duped and tricked and taken advantage of. It’s not about the cost , I just can’t believe he would refuse to answer a patients concern unless he gets payment first . Especially as it is not a new question or issue it’s a simple clarification of what he had already prescribed . I cried for hours today feeling very lost and upset that I let myself be tricked by this unethical so called doctor that is making money of our misery and helplessness. He’s a crook . Stay away

Snoopysimaginaryfriend · 28/06/2018 22:39

Hi tina. I'm sorry to hear about what you are going through.

If you check the first page of this thread you will see that I had three miscarriages before going to dr shehata. I then had two DDs in 14 months on his plan.

If you want to PM what you need clarified I could see if I remember anything helpful. There was also a thread on the conception board where dr s' patients post which I will try to link to.

If it's any consolation every single one of the women who were on the thread when I was have now had at least one baby.

Snoopysimaginaryfriend · 28/06/2018 22:41

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/3024559-immune-nk-issues-aka-pred-thread-no-21?pg=30&order=

This is the thread. They are lovely and supportive.

Good luck x

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