Recurrent Miscarriage Support Thread 30 - Support for Tests, Treatments and Trying Again

[forestnest]

Support, hugs, a wealth of collective knowledge and lots of hand holding as we try again. This thread moves like lightning so prepare to read fast!

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/miscarriage/2441180-Recurrent-Miscarriage-Support-Thread-29-Support-for-Tests-Treatments-and-Trying-Again

(stats etc to follow)

Big hugs ladies

Know what you both mean about the losses and when do you say 'enough'

Both my losses have been of chromosomally normal embryos, so we unfortunately know it’s not ‘just’ bad luck and if we keep trying we’ll get a good egg eventually

We have 5 more genetically perfect embryos on ice, and in my mind it’s 1-2 more transfers before we call it quits on my body and accept we’re flogging a dead horse. If we can’t turn 4 genetically perfect embryos into a person, both with and without additional treatment (steroids, intralipids, clexane, aspirin, extra progesterone, metformin, thyroxine, endometrial scratch, and now surgery to remove mild adhesions and 2 months of a copper coil plus HRT to work on my endometrium, then a dummy FET), then we will have to accept that I can’t sustain a pregnancy, and move onto surrogacy with our remaining 3 embryos

I have enquired about the Coventry biopsy, but they haven’t answered my questions about how I can have it if I don’t ovulate. TBH as the results can be so variable month on month, and stalking the Quenby threads on FF, it seems one month levels can be high, another they can be low, which doesn’t really help in deciding whether pred would or wouldn’t be beneficial! I’m minded to go by my own history as to whether to take pred or not - I got to 10w without pred, and with sudden foetal demise (hb @ 7+1 and 8+5, but at 10w scan baby measured 9+3, so died 3 days after the previous scan) Dr thinks even though all my thrombophilia tests were clear, it was likely something to do with blood flow, which hopefully Clexane and aspirin would help with.

This second loss I only got to 5w (so really a chemical pregnancy), WITH pred and intralipids, so given that I did successfully propagate a proper pregnancy without the pred, I’m minded to leave it off next time

I couldn’t have the Coventry biopsy for a while anyway, as I’ve got a copper IUD in, following a hysteroscopy to remove some mild adhesions and to try and get me menstruating.

After that we’ll do a dummy FET, with an endometrial biopsy while taking oestrogen (not the Coventry biopsy, a normal biopsy for general histology, to see what the endometrium is doing under the microscope), and then the ERA biopsy 5 days after starting progesterone. I don’t think I could have 3 biopsies in the same month, and I don’t think we’d want to risk the possibility of scarring with too many biopsies -so I think I’m erring on the side of NOT going to Coventry

Although I go back and forth as I think ‘what if’ - as I’ve had every other test going except that one!!!

So hard to know what to do - there is no right or wrong answer, which makes it harder!!

Evening everybody (waves to Banana and Danlsb),

Banana - From what you've said, it sounds like you're being looked after well and maybe don't also need to go to Coventry?

I basically went because I didn't want to pay Shehata prices and thought I could rule out (hopefully) the prospect that killer cells are contributing to my miscarriages. I've only had the inclusive RMC tests on the NHS. A brief medical history was taken, but the consultation was very much discussing their hypotheses and research into recurrent miscarriage. They have a sample of about 450 thus far I think.

Interestingly, Prof. B. implied they're moving away from automatically prescribing the prednisone, even with high killer cells, because as you've noted from other threads, the levels go up and down from month to month ( facepalm. ) Prof B. seemed to be advocating the progesterone and waiting until killer cell levels are low before ttc.

Banana you deserve a medal with all that poking and prodding. So many biopsies. I found it awful and I wouldn't put myself through it again. If my levels come back high, I'm not going back for a repeat biopsy. I could be back and forth all year.

When I listen to treatments that others are pursuing, I do wonder if I want it enough. Time will tell I suppose.

Wishing everyone all the best.

That's really interesting what you've said Lost and all makes total sense

My Dr said he doesn't find either the Chicago or Coventry tests particularly reliable tbh. He says peripheral blood levels don't necessarily accurately reflect what's going on in the uterine environment (which is what Quenby and Brosens say, and why they don't rate the Chicagos).

On the other hand he says the endometrium sheds and regenerates every month so testing one month isn't necessarily going to tell you anything useful (which seems to be the conclusion Prof B has reached, from what you've said!)

My Dr prefers to treat empirically, so will prescribe pred / intralipids / clexane for repeat failed implantation, an unexplained miscarriage or an autoimmune history.

All that said, after my mc I wanted to understand if there were any major red flags immunes wise, so I got my level 2 immunes done with a lab in Athens (fessed up to my Dr once I had the results), who does tests that are identical to the Chicagos, except only cost £300 (including overnight shipping to send my blood to Greece)!! The blood NK cells were mildly elevated but nothing wildly concerning.

But empirically, I think based on my history I will ask my Dr about NOT doing pred & intralipids on my next transfer cycle, just Clexane. Who the hell knows?!!

The only endometrial biopsies I've had so far have been during my hysteroscopies, which were under GA so I was knocked out - haven't yet experienced the joys of a 'normal' (ie awake!!) one yet...

I've had 4 egg collections, 2 embryo transfers, 1 HyCoSy, 3 Neupogen washes , 1 ERPC, 2 hysteroscopies and somewhere in the region of 30-odd dildocam scans in the past 12 months, so tbh 'only' having a couple of endometrial biopsies in the coming months feels like a bit of a break!

Hi xxxx
Me:32 DH: 32 DS:9 DS:2 MMC 11+1 MMC 15+1 MMC 11+ 6 😫😫😫😫 all standard nhs tests have come back normal! But have been referred to RMC St Mary's. Something was mentioned about hyperfertiltity as I get pregnant so easily. Also I think my nhs consultant (who I love, Mr Clarke Exeter) would prescribe me progesterone if I asked. What shall I do? What can I expect? What can I say to get the best treatment? So desperate to complete our family and really can't do this again! Sorry for everyone's losses it really sucks xxx

Oh and just to mention I saw heartbeats with all 3 losses at 8 weeks, been really sick, they have had all their chromosomes. Only thing I felt was different between my healthy pregnancies and the losses were my boobs didn't really hurt that much if at all and I spotted brown (old) blood around 6 weeks and spotted a peachy colour on/off xx

Hi all,
Me: 32 DP:37 TTC#1 MMC 10 wks MMC 6wks Waiting for confirmation on Monday of my 3rd MC all in last 18 months. The thing is I havent had any symptoms of MC this time. With both previous I've had spotting and bleeding then passed naturally. This time we had the early scan and they said they could only see an empty sac so we expected blighted ovum. Went back a week later and there had been some growth of something but no baby. We were told to wait another 2wks. However with my history and lack of pg symptoms I'm pretty sure it's an MC. I should be about 9 was now. The thing is I don't know what we do from here. I haven't really had any advice and it's only being on MN that has lead me to think there may alternatives such as trying Coventry. I've had basically no advice from my GP and don't know what to ask for next. Can anyone advise what I need to ask for from my doctor? Anyone had similar experiences?
Thanks in advance ladies. Hopefully we'll all get there xxx

Hi Murphy and Shazza,

So sorry to hear about your losses.

My experience was that after the 3 missed miscarriages, I went to the GP and asked for a referral to the recurrent miscarriage clinic at my local hospital.

The appointment came through via choose and book and there was only a 3/4 week wait for an appointment.

At this appointment, a brief (very brief) history was taken and an internal examination performed. I was ushered in and out and didn't even get the opportunity to discuss when things had gone wrong etc. It was very much a case of, these are the questions I'm going to ask and then you're out.

I was referred for a transvaginal scan which came through after about another 5 weeks and then I had about 12 vials of bloods taken on the instruction of the RM specialist.

You then get an appointment to discuss the results, but this was a bit of a cock up in my case and I was given an appointment when all the bloods hadn't yet come back. I was made to feel like this was my fault at the appointment! (As you might be able to tell, I haven't had the best experiences with the doctors I've met through NHS RM investigations).

When I was 3 cycles post miscarriage, I went to Coventry (self referral, £360) and am waiting on the results of their biopsy. Professor Brosens is very nice but you should be prepared for the fact that he's doing a clinical trial and they purport a very different theory on why people miscarry compared to the NHS investigations you'll receive. Also, they take a history but are not there to discuss any of the other explanations you may or may not have been given as a result of other tests.

If you have the cash and want to speed up the process, I would recommend doing some research into consultants and going private, depending on why you think you might be having losses?

I needed a few months to recover emotionally and physically, so wasn't in a great rush and given there is no magic wand even after investigations, I didn't rush into things or spend a fortune.

Whatever is found, the standard NHS approach after 3 miscarriages is to give you progesterone at BFP, then clexane once a HB is seen around 6 weeks.

Good luck

Hello!

First big hugs to everybody having a bad day/week/month...

First time here, so here are my info:
Me:40 (well, almost 41...)
DH: 43

MC1: 4w5d, MC2: 4w5d, MC3: 5w, so three chemicals without any complication

Blew our savings with Dr Shehata and now have a daughther who will be 2 in few days. Was put on levothyroxine, high dose folic acid, aspirin, clexane, progesterone, metformin, prednisolone and lipid infusions (multiple problems but all treatable, we were told...) Heavy stuff but everything worked well and had very few problems overall.

Financial situation is not great at the moment so Shehata again is not possible before next year, when I will probably be too old for another baby. Wonderful GP referred me to my new-ish local NHS recurrent miscarriage clinic where they did close to nothing. They "convinced" me that I didn't need anything for my immune system but prescribed the other drugs half-happily. I still feel incredibly guilty for letting them "convince" me...

I got pregnant straight away, but by now you get the point:

MC4: died few days over 6w, without any symptoms. First scan was at 8w4. Went back at 10w5 and had ERPC the following day (30/09). I was still having pregnancy symptoms so I think it would have taken a very long time to get out on its own. And at that point I wanted it analysed properly anyway.

The histology was normal (GP showed me results on the system) but I am still waiting for my follow up appointment and the chromosomal analysis.

Since I am crushed for time and had success before there are suddenly few unorthodox possibilities... (Not my cup of tea most of the time but a girl must do what she needs to do...)

Questions:

1- For those of you who went to Coventry (we could stretch for that sort of money) and were prescribed prednisolone, were you prescribed anything else for your immune system?

2- Has anybody been "recently" prescribed prednisolone by the NHS? My local clinic claimed that they are not allowed to do so, but the more I dig up information, the more I discovered that this is not true! I'd like some examples!!! (It is not costly at all BTW)

• The unorthodox question! Has anybody ever succeeded to buy prednisolone over the internet without a prescription? Where from? (I can find few websites with a simple Google search...) I am not as crazy as I sound: I took it before, know to keep my blood pressure under check (wasn't a problem for me), know how to taper it off at 12 weeks and would not hide this from the NHS (Would tell my gp once at 6 weeks and mention it at my booking midwife appointment. I would be considered high risk anyway, like last time around...)

Sorry for the rant and thanks in advance for your input. I hope my appetite comes back soonish (though the instant weight loss was half welcome) and that I sleep better soon. On the plus side it feels like I'll be ovulating soon (quite obvious for me, LOADS of egg white... tmi, sorry), so my periods should be about 5 weeks post ERPC. At least one thing that goes according to plan...

Hello all similar to other ladies this is my first post but I'm really in need of some support and advice. Sorry for the essay. I am 31 and DH is 39. We have been TTC for close to 3 yrs. I initially fell pregnant quickly but it went downhill quickly as it was ectopic. Luckily it failed naturally so everything remains intact. Given my age I found it difficult to get doctors interested in my concerns. Privately went for an hsg which showed tubes patent. Told to try naturally and expect to be pregnant within a year. Nothing! Had tests run and all normal, including sperm morphology. Privately went for IVF at care london. They did suggest before embryo transfer I should have a hysteroscopy as it appeared I had some fibroids that were impacting the cavity. I had good success with IVF and EC and had 7 PGS 5D embryos frozen. I had the hysteroscopy and natural FET in October which failed. FET in November with cyclogest pessaries for support post transfer. BFP. At our 7 weeks scan the embryo hadn't grown to the right size and was measuring 6 weeks. was told 50:50 chance. Next day starting bleeding with large SCH. Worst Xmas ever as didn't naturally miscarry. ERPC - great way to welcome the NY! 2 months later plan was to have FET with estrogen and progesterone support but lining didn't thicken in 3rd of uterus. Suggested I have another hysteroscopy to see if I had scar tissue of more fibroids. 2 more hysteroscopies to remove more fibroids. This time I went to Dr Lower for these as he is an expert in this field and i was disappointed the first one didn't do the job. He agreed that the fibroids would have caused significant issues as one was taking up almost a 3rd off the cavity - god knows what they did in the first procedure. Medicated FET September and BFP. Was feeling hopeful given fibroids all removed. Starting spotting end of week 4. Scan showed gestation sac in the uterus and no SCH so told to rest up but all fine. Started bleeding heavily 5 weeks 4 days and went to a&e as late at night. Examination revealed cervix closed but significant clots from uterus. Scan at clinic the next day showed embryo still in uterus and measuring correct for dates. I was put on bed rest as there was a small SCH below the sac. Bleeding subsided just brown spotting. Repeat scan on Tuesday showed the embryo hadn't grown was 4mm so only 2mm growth in a week. Repeat scan today and no growth so diagnosed as non viable pregnancy and have subsequently started bleeding. I had actually gone back to Mr Lower for these scans as the doctor I was seeing at care london was away and I didn't want to see a doctor who didn't know my history. Mr Lower has run RPL blood tests for blood clotting/ sticky blood to see if this is a problem. The weird thing is that between last week and Tuesday my HCG levels had increased as expected so the placenta was developing but the embryo just couldn't grow. Frustrating as it appears that whilst the fibroids were less than helpful this pregnancy failed at exactly the same stage as the last one so there must be something bigger going on. Mr Lower is suggesting that for the next cycle he would propose clexane steroids intralipids progesterone injections and pessaries and potentially high dose folic acid. So effectively he will treat me like I have immune issues. He doesn't propose running the tests as I think his view is they are expensive and he would do it all anyway. I am interest to hear other thoughts on the above? Has anyone else got to 6 weeks and repeatedly failed? What are all the drugs above like? I was always keen to try to do it as natural as possible but now I will be going to the other extreme. I'm emotionally exhausted and I'm so worried this is all going to be in vain. Thanks for listening.

Big hug tiredhs!

I know very little about ivf but have been on the immune/miscarriage drugs you mentioned. Here's my experience.

-High dose Folic Acid: no big deal at all, just a stronger vitamins than the "regular" folic acid.

• Progesterone pessaries (haven't done injections): those made me fart like mad!!! But that was it, and it stops soon after stopping at 12 weeks (or soon after a non-viability scan...)

-Clexane: I won't lie, it is not fun at all. The injections are painful but you do get used to it. A trick is to put an ice pack on your injection site for 10-15 min beforehand. You will most likely bruise a bit too. (Bad in a bikini, no big deal otherwise.) It is also quite costly (£5/day).

-Intralipids: I felt puffed up after my first time but had nothing the 3 other times I went. It takes quite some time but it can almost be relaxing in a way. Expensive.

• Steroids (I had prednisolone): Had mostly nice side effects on me: energy ok, NO morning sickness. Had a big of shock when came time to stop (I needed to tapper it down slower than standard) but nothing too bad. You'll need to keep your blood pressure in check and could gain too much weight du to increased appetite (I lost 1 kg during my first trimester despite eating all the time, so it does vary a lot between people!) some people get insomnia, but I was ok. I read it can have a negative effect on baby growth in third trimester but they will keep a very close eye on you with your sort of history anyway, so I wouldn't worry too much.

On the whole I was first shocked by how much stuff there was to take/inject etc but it was no big deal once I got used to it. (Mind you I didn't do IVF either). All I am trying to say is that it wasn't as scary as it sounds for me when we conceived our daughter, and I bet you'll find it not too bad either.

That said, take your time to regain your energy, both physically and emotionally. It will look brighter soon, I promised (Hey, I had a little something to eat at lunch time today!!! It does get better...)

Lots of hugs again!

Hello everyone
So sorry so many of you had/are having such an awful time.
Unfortunately I cannot help with questions about treatment plans or autoimmune experience.
However Murphy I can tell you my experience if that helps - I asked GP for referral to recurrent miscarriage clinic as soon as scan confirmed 3rd mc. It was a 13wk wait and as Lost said a very quick consultation taking barely any info followed by a load of blood tests a scan. I still don't have those results as it is a further 16 wk wait for follow up apt at my clinic. You are not allowed to ttc before follow up apt and if you are pregnant I was told I would be discharged and not given any support. In the mean time I decided to go to Coventry too as I was feeling frustrated waiting - it was one of the more affordable private options ( also it's technically still nhs so most GPs will prescribe any recommended meds). My NK cells are normal and Prof B gave me progesterone to use when next ttc.
As others have said the nhs means longer waits so if you can afford private then you would get quicker results.

Wishing everyone positive out comes x

Hi everyone, new to this thread & hoping for some advice. I'm sorry for all your losses. I'm currently having my 3rd mc in 5 months.

Me: 39
DH: 42
1 DS age 4, TTC#2 since Feb '16
MC#1 7w4d (mmc, ERPC 16/05/16)
MC#2 4w2d (17/09/16)
MC#3 4w6d (21/10/16)

So the last two have been chemicals in quick succession. I'm currently on holiday & was going to see my GP when I get back - is it worth a referral to an RMC or would I be better off self-referring to Coventry straight away?

I had my thyroid tested, tsh was 2.34. What else can my GP or the RMC test for? Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me.

Thanks for your reply. I have a pretty high pain threshold and was ok at taking the injections when I had my round of IVF so hopefully that will be ok. Yes I have heard that the intralipids are expensive if you have a nurse come to your house but my acupuncturist said that he thinks you can have them administered by a nurse in the Harley street area for a fraction off the cost? It was more the side effects that worried me but thanks putting my mind at rest. My doctor doesn't believe in humira or IViG as he says he isn't sure about the long term effects on the body.

I'm just so worried that I will try this next and it won't work but I guess there is no alternative. Sometimes I really question how all of this became my life. It takes over your whole world and people keep saying I need to take some time now to have some fun before we try again. I can't remember what true fun felt like. It's always in the back of my mind.

How do others keep the faith in this process!?

What's remarkable is the strength of all of us. We often silently suffer and go about our daily lives carrying this pressure with us. I hope that we all get what we truly deserve.

Hello everyone

So sorry to read of everyone’s losses to you all

Histology report from my hysteroscopy came through and confirmed that ‘retained products of conception’ were removed. Apparently at 5w there was still some pregnancy tissue. Wouldn’t have been large enough for karyotyping, which we didn’t need to do anyway as it was PGS tested so we know I miscarried another chromosomally normal embryo.

Had a Skype consult with a US Dr about surrogacy - he agreed with all the proposed treatment and said there wasn’t anything he would do differently. Which gives me confidence in our current course of action, but obvs a little part of me would have liked it if there was something that had been overlooked that we could also try.

He said our embryos were precious and that we should proceed carefully - he agreed that 2 more transfers as a limit was sensible. He said we needed to feel we’d tried everything if we were to then decide to move on to surrogacy, but that if we'd had 4 miscarriages of genetically normal embryos that it would be reasonable to determine that I was unlikely to be able to sustain a pregnancy

He said he hoped very much that our current plan would work out but that the only way we’d know would be to have a run at it. Just have to roll the dice and see what happens really.

thatsnot an RMC will be able to test for the full thrombophilia screening. I’m not sure which of these the NHS will test for exactly, but things to ask for:

1. Full blood count, Fasting glucose, Urea and Electrolytes, liver function tests
2. Thyroid function tests (must include both free T4 and TSH)
3. Anticardiolipin antibodies (both IgG and IgM)
4. Thrombophilia screen (must include lupus anticoagulant, Activated Protein C resistance, Factor V Leiden, Protein C, Protein S, PAl-1 Gene Polymorphism, Antithrombin III and Factor II Prothrombin gene mutation, Methylene Tetrahydrofolate Reductase (MTHFR) Gene Mutation (most NHS hospitals will be unable to do these).
5. Autoimmune antibodies (to include anti-nuclear antibodies, thyroid peroxidase and anti-mitochondrial antibodies)
6. Karyotype (both partners)

If you haven’t had a pelvic ultrasound this would be important

NHS would probably also do an HSG to look for uterine anomalies

The Coventry endometrial biopsy referenced upthread may be worth investigating although this is only available privately, it’s less than £400

tired intralipids were a doddle. Bit cold going in but just a couple of hours to read a book! My Dr doesn’t treat with Humira or IVIG, and lots of immunes docs say pred + intralipids are just as effective

Clexane left me looking like a junkie, but that was because I was also injecting Lubion into my belly, so I was doing two injections a day into my tummy, and ran out of places to stab!

I’m so used to taking stuff I no longer really think about it tbh. Currently I’m ‘only’ taking cycloprogynova, thyroxine, metformin, pentoxifylline (and epilepsy and pain meds). During IVF I took (alongside the normal IVF meds, and thyroxine an metformin) oestrogen tablets, vaginal viagra pessaries, G-CSF uterine wash, progesterone pessaries, progesterone injections, clexane, aspirin, prednisolone and IV intralipids. Along with all the folic acid, vitamin D, and gazillion other vitamins

Apparently it’s possible to have some sex and get a baby 9 months later?!!

I have debated crack addiction as a less expensive, and presumably more enjoyable, fertility cure, as those arseholes on Jeremy Kyle can't stop getting knocked up!

I don’t remember what fun is. I feel so changed as a person. It’s not just the permanent aching sadness and fear that we will never become parents. It’s the toxic nature of what infertility and miscarriage does to the rest of your life and relationships - it takes away from everything

Hugs to all

Wow banana you really have taken it all!

I'm a bit the same as you I would say that given we have 4 frozen PGS tested embryos left maybe we go for 2 more and then consider our options. I started looking at surrogacy so I know what the score is. Who did you talk to in the US? Have you spoken to any of the charities here like brilliant beginnings? I have contacted them but haven't had a final meeting. I'm just unsure of the logistics of doing it all in the US.

Loved your comments re Jeremy Kyle - it's what I always say!!

Feeling really sick this morning. Hoping it's the crash from coming off all the drugs. I really would like to speed up this process and miscarry now. If nothing has happened by Monday I'm going to see the do and book in for an ERPC. The waiting is more torture.

X

Thank you very much for the info Banana, and I'm sorry for everything you've been through. Wishing you all the best for your next step.

Thanks all for the info. We have a confirmation scan on Monday. You advice and recommendations have alll been really helpful. I'll let you know what they say. Hugs to all. What strong awesome ladies you are xxxxx

Murphy thinking of you today, hope you and your partner are bearing up, given the circumstances

tired How are you doing? I really hope things have started moving, but that if not that you can get an ERPC arranged quickly

I know of Mr Lower by reputation, and other patients of his, and I know he is one of the best. I had some small adhesions, either as a result of the MMC or the ERPC - although I don’t have formal asherman’s (they were only small adhesions) we’re treating me as if I were an AS patient, hence the copper coil + HRT cycles. We’ve treated me empirically for immunes with the same meds as Mr Lower is proposing for you - although all my thrombophilia tests were clear, my consultant said with such sudden foetal demise that some kind of compromised foetal blood flow couldn’t be ruled out, so clexane and aspirin were a must post ET. My Dr also agrees with Mr lower and doesn’t run the tests as he doesn’t find them reliable, and says exactly the same - says the treatment would be the same, and will treat based on history, so no point running the tests. They are clearly in violent agreement!

BTW has Mr Lower checked your uterine blood flow with the doppler ultrasound? I know he’s the top man in town so assume it’s all covered off, but just thought I’d mention just in case

I spoke with a number of clinics and agencies, by far the most helpful was the Centre for Surrogate Parenting, who gave me the direct details of 2 Drs to speak to - both of whom were amazingly helpful, and got back to me straight away. I’d be happy to give you their details if useful

I saw that Surrogacy UK weren’t accepting new intended parents, and TBH the surrogacy law in the UK is such that I think it’s best suited to situations where a friend or family member will offer to be the gestational carrier. My cousin has offered to be a surrogate if we get to that point, however she has a complicated obstetric history, and I could never live with myself if anything happened to her as a result of carrying a pregnancy on our behalf. Doing it in the US is horrifically expensive, although if you have frozen embryos (and euploid embryos at that) then you at least save on the IVF bit. You go through an agency and they help you with a match with a GC (gestational carrier) and all the legals - the very nice Dr I spoke to said CSP were by far the best agency and he would highly recommend them. He said with PGS tested embryos we were excellent candidates for surrogacy - so I imagine the same would be true for you. BTW the other Dr who I exchanged emails with said he knew CARE London (my frosties are also at CARE) and had absolute confidence that they had done an excellent job with our embryos. And therefore also yours too. (I'm not directly with CARE, I'm with an independent consultant who works with CARE, but it's their lab and I had EC/ET there. So our frosties might be hanging out in the same tank!)

Hi banana had my erpc this morning and feel much better now. I was feeling really sick over the weekend so I'm happy that my body can try to resume some sort of normality. In regards to the blood flow to the uterus I assume he has checked this - god knows I have had so many scans with him so I imagine it has been done at some stage.

Yes you are right re brilliant beginnings, they aren't accepting anyone new at this stage. They just offer (for a sweet £500) an initial consultation to talk you through the process, both here in the UK and in the US from a logistical and legal perspective. So you contacted CSP and they gave you the details of doctors to discuss it all through as they would be the ones that would help from a science perspective (egg transfer etc) CSP effectively would help match you with a surrogate?

You're right it does seem that the UK is more set up for friends off family being a surrogate. Albeit you still face legal issues when bringing back your baby into the UK from the US as I understand that Uk law would still not recognise you as the mother until you have an agreed parental order issued by the UK courts. Such a complex process.

Anyway for now at least I have to heal and then we will try the mega drugged up version of FET and see if this helps. Fingers crossed!!

that's very reassuring hearing that about Care isn't it. I have to say all the embryologists are really nice whenever I have spoken to them.

tired Obvs I am so very sorry that you’ve had cause to need an ERPC in the first place, but I’m so pleased you’re feeling better and that the procedure went well. I found the recovery from my ERPC very straightforward, and there was nothing physically gruelling about the process - whereas medical management or naturally miscarrying at that far along sounded pretty tough going. Hope you can soon physically heal - emotionally I know not so easy

I contacted CSP - amongst other surrogacy agencies, but they were the most helpful, and gave me two specific Drs to contact (and the Dr I had the Skype consult said he only worked with a couple of surrogacy agencies and rated them highly). I got a very detailed email from one Dr about the logistics of transferring my frozen embryos, and the other I had a Skype consult. Both confirmed it was definitely possible to export my frozen embryos to a US clinic for transfer to a GC (gestational carrier). The surrogacy agency match you with a surrogate and assist you with all the legal side of things from the US end

It is sadly exactly as you say for the UK end of things. A friend and his husband have recently been through that process - they have a gorgeous little boy who was born via egg donation and surrogacy (as I coo-ed to him, he is extra special as he has 2 daddies AND 2 mummies - an egg mummy and a tummy mummy). They went through the High Court process to get the parental order, had a court recorder come and visit them to assess whether they would be suitable parents (for their own child, who had been living with them since he was born, and who had both their names on his birth certificate)

A crackhead can get knocked up for free, the NHS will pay for their antenatal, they can support their child on state benefits and social services will bend over backwards to keep the baby with its birth mother. Yet the couple who want nothing more to be good parents, and are going to the ends of the earth and back to try and have a baby, are the ones who will be ££££££ down and judged by the courts if they should be allowed to parent their own child. It breaks my heart.

Hoping that you can take some time to heal and that the super duper mega turbo FET does the trick! You are clearly in the very best hands with Mr Lower as he is THE man for all things uterine. CARE embryology team are lovely, and they have one of the best established genetics programmes in the country, which is v v reassuring.

Hope you can rest up - thinking of you

Feeling much better after the erpc. Trying to be more positive and focus on the good ... ability to have a glass of wine is nice. Clearly I want the reason to not, but for now I will just enjoy it. Debating when to contact the surrogacy agency and find out more info. I'm starting to come round to the idea. My husband thinks I'm being a bit hasty and we have a long way to go yet, but I believe it's important to start emotionally adjusting to your situation and understanding what's involved. The biggest concern is cost - it's so expensive in the US!
Still waiting for my RPL blood test results. A few came back normal FBC, lupus and anticardiolipins but apart from FBC I actually have no idea what these mean - I asked the nurse which ones had come back before I get my full report.

How is everyone else getting on?

Happy Halloween 👻

Today is my birthday (ylI am a bit of a witch, obviously...) so I decided to be happy. There is still cake from the little one's birthday party last weekend, as well as balloons and happy birthday banner. She turned 2 on the 25th. Somehow I throw her a party because I want one for myself...

I spent a tremendous amount of time chasing my follow up hospital appointment last week to no avail. I was told straight after my ERPC to call back if I hadn't received an appointment letter after 3 weeks, but almost 4 weeks later I was made to feel that I was being unreasonable to expect anything to happen "this fast". Not nice.

But hey, today I am happy, I decided!

How wrong is it to bring a 2 years old trick or threating then steal their candy ???

Good for you Oldmummy! I'm sure your 2 year old won't mind! ;-)
Just to update, our scan confirmed everything last Tuesday. The embryo had shrunk. I opted for the medical management and was able to have it there and then. Stayed lying down for an hour and by the time I'd made it home the bleeding had started. It was painful and awful but not nearly as bad as my last natural one. Maybe I'm just getting tougher, who knows. I feel pretty battered by the whole thing but I can only look forward. Again....
I have to say the hospital and my GP were awesome. To be able to be seen and treated that day was so much better than more waiting. They must have passed the notes straight over to my GP as she phoned me with no prompting that evening. We have been referred to the RMC and are now waiting for that appointment.... More waiting and more time to worry about stuff. Still, I do feel that with some testing at least things will be moving forward. I'll be sure to note your advice and thanks to you guys I will know what to ask. X

Talk Miscarriage/pregnancy loss
First pregnancy - miscarried at 6 1/2 weeks23
20/10/2016 10:30 Fuzyfelt23

I'm currently going through a miscarriage, my first pregnancy after ttc for 5 months. We were so excited and I feel like my hearts been ripped out. I feel like a mother with no baby. I was ready but unfortunately my baby wasn't. I feel so hopeless

20/10/2016 10:33 IPokeBadgers

That's very sad for you. I'm sorry you are going through this. It feels hopeless now and that's ok. You will get through this xx

20/10/2016 10:35 wowwee123

so sorry you are having to go through this fuzzy. it's truly heartbreaking. let yourself feel however you want.

there's nothing i can say to make you feel better but it does start to hurt less over time.

so sorry flowers

21/10/2016 00:24 Thingymaboob

Hi fuzy, I'm in exactly the same boat as you. Currently miscarrying at 6 weeks after ttc 5 months. Feel desperately upset and totally drained. Had a scan at epau which showed empty uterus. Ignored brown discharge for 4 days as old blood and it was really light. Then it was really watery like pond water urgh. Knew then. Now heavily bleeding. My husband and I are going to try again in January. My boobs still feel swollen and sore. My HCG is still high enough to produce a positive pregnancy test. So unfair. I've been in bed since Sunday. Only changed my clothes once to meet my closest friends. Have had one bath.
Has your partner been supportive? Have you been to work? There's nothing I can say to make pain go away!

21/10/2016 08:21 Fuzyfelt23

My partner has been absolutely amazing. I've been off work all week and plan to go back monday. I'm sorry you're going through it too, its horrendous x

21/10/2016 08:48 Thingymaboob

Glad to hear your partner has been amazing. My bleeding has really ramped up last 2 days. I've been recommended floradix which has iron and B vitamins. Have you thought about when you're going ttc again?

21/10/2016 13:36 Fuzyfelt23

I'll wait for my next cycle and then start again I think

21/10/2016 14:34 Thingymaboob

Same here. Not feeling sexy at all at the moment. Let's stay in touch fuzy!
Today has been slightly better. Made food for myself (scrambled eggs with smoked salmon). I also drank a strong coffee. I've mainly been eating take aways and muffins!
How are you feeling today?

21/10/2016 20:42 rmx3

I'm in the same boat. Just finishing up a miscarriage at 6.5 weeks. Doc saw a gestational sac but I never developed further. Unfortunately you will get a positive pregnancy test even after you pass tissue and the sac. Yesterday I had almost passed everything and my HCG was down to 134 and the pregnancy was gone but I would still get a positive if I took one. It's terrible. I think the worst is over. I've cried and cried and we wanted this baby. Best wishes to you both.

22/10/2016 00:53 Thingymaboob

Hi rm!
I'm crying less frequently, however I haven't gone back to work yet. That's going to be tough on Monday! My HCG is down to 30 now. Bled quite a lot these last 2 days. Feeling very drained but have started taking floradix. Hoping that will perk me up a bit. Still feeling nauseous!

22/10/2016 08:00 Fuzyfelt23

Hi thingy and rm, this is my 7th day of bleeding, its slowed down a lot but still bleeding, feeling really run down, had a really bad tummy yesterday and felt really sick. I just want it all to be over. Its the most awful thing that's ever happened. I just want to be pregnant again. Funny story... the day I miscarried on the morning I was telling my bf that our little dot was the size of a small ladybird... later in the day I started bleeding and losing clots, i sat on the bed and cried and cried and what landed on our bedroom window.. a ladybird.. and it came back the next day whilst I was crying in bed... i believe it was my little dot telling me its going to be ok xx

22/10/2016 11:15 Thingymaboob

Isn't life funny like that. It's a nice way to think about it.

My nephew was born in my old bedroom (not planned, progressed quickly whilst at my mums - two weeks early) on the day I miscarried.
I don't really know what to make of that! Rung my mum to tell her I was miscarrying. At same time, my sister in law in labour. They didn't tell me until afterwards.

22/10/2016 14:33 rmx3

It is terrible! I just want it to be over too. I actually spoke too soon and started hurting very badly last

22/10/2016 14:36 rmx3

night and woke up throughout covered in sweat. Today I feel like I'm just getting over some horrible sickness with how rundown I feel.

Life is very funny like that. My sister delivered her baby last week and it felt difficult. Since I've miscarried it's sad for me to see the pics she sends out. I love her so much and so happy she has a perfect beautiful baby but it hurts my heart that we didn't get ours. Hoping thingy and fuzzy that your mc ends very soon and can move on with our life's again.

22/10/2016 15:00 Fuzyfelt23

My name is Lisa by the way 😊 I'm 27 tomorrow xx

22/10/2016 17:23 Thingymaboob

I hope you get to do something enjoyable on your birthday.
My name is Laura and I'm 31 x

22/10/2016 18:10 Fuzyfelt23

Thank you, my boyfriend has planned lots of nice things. I'm trying to enjoy, just getting so upset

22/10/2016 18:45 Fuzyfelt23

How long will you wait to try again? X

22/10/2016 23:39 rmx3

Hope you get to enjoy your birthday and that you have a rainbow baby coming soon.

22/10/2016 23:51 Thingymaboob

I think I just want to be pregnant straight away. Like right now. My husband wants to wait until new year. He really wants a baby too but we we had planned on pausing ttc as we were having a lot of arguments but then I caught! Also I want to lose a stone before I try again as my BMI is 31. Not that bad I know but it will make me feel better and reduce some of the risks. Had dinner with a friend tonight who is an obstetrician- she was very reassuring about everything. Back to slimming world a week Thursday. I have eaten a lot of take aways and cake this week.

23/10/2016 08:24 Fuzyfelt23

I'm sorry you were arguing, I hope it's stuff you can work on. I know this sounds crap but try to concentrate on your hubby too, i know my other half is hurting too so i'm trying to give him the attention he needs. I'm conscious this baby business can be all consuming. Be kind to yourself. You can lose weight when you're ready if that's what you want to do xx

Today 17:23 GlitzyGlam1

Hi everyone. This is my first time to post here & I am just asking for your advice. I was late in life getting married and was ecstatic when I found out I was pregnant for the first time @42. Unfortunately my husband didn't feel the same way and insisted I had an abortion. I was utterly devasted by his reaction but swore I wouldn't go through with it. He has 2 kids from his first marriage and he had to run it by his 15 yr old daughter. As soon as she approved he changed his mind. Throughout the 12 wks I was pregnant I was very sick and my husband didn't come to our baby's first scan because he had to mind his 15 yr old daughter. It was at this scan that the Doctor told me our daughter had died. I was utterly devastated because they were able to tell me she had Downs and Turners Syndrome. I felt so alone in that room but Thank God my mother was there with me. What made it more distressing was that I was asked what Funeral Arrangements I would like, again I was on my own. I had to go into hospital the following day for a D&C which my husband came with me. I have never got over the loss of my little baby because when it comes to Birthday's Christmas etc. I find it very difficult. What makes it more difficult is the fact that my husband doesn't want a baby. He says we are too old but he will never know the trauma that losing a baby brings. Has anyone had this with their partners. Unfortunately I will never ever know what being a mother is like and 2 yrs on I don't feel any better. I have been constantly upset and been crying continuously. Can anyone suggest where U can go to talk to someone about this
Thanks

Hi ladies. I got the results back of my RPL tests. All looks fine apart from I have a positive result for heterozygous c677t MTHFR. They plan to put me on 5mg of folic acid and as previously suggested I will be treated as if I have another immune issues as well. Question for you ladies. Does anyone else have this? Were you out ok highbdose folic acid or did they suggest folate? I have read some research that says if you have MTHFR of any kind you should avoid synthetic folic acid. My doctor only gives you folate if you are homozygous in your diagnosis. Thanks all.