Oestrogel: new packaging (yet again)? - Thread 2

[ConfusedEasily]

Carrying on from a previous thread by Cosmetichamster which can be found here:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/menopause/4696464-oestrogel-new-packaging-yet-again

I know that blood testing for levels of hormones is not always recommended- my menopause doc says she'd rather go on symptoms? But I got my oestrodial levels checked as part of investigation into something else, and they were rock bottom despite me being on 4 pumps of Oestrogel (new, cylindrical bottle). I was away up at 4 pumps to try to fix the fact that my symptoms were returning, when I'd had a good while of being OK on 2-3 pumps
They've switched me to evorel patches, 50mg to start. I feel no bloody difference to be honest. But I know i can try 75mg next.
GP didn't understand why it wasn't being absorbed, but I'm presuming this has possibly been the issue. I was on the triangle style bottle to start with.

@ConfusedEasily

100% agree with what you are saying. I noticed with the matte,printed on bottles that I only needed 2 pumps but with the glossy,stuck on labels I needed 3 pumps.
I way prefer the matte bottles!
I still think the previous cylindrical bottles were the best though. I sometimes find that the matte bottles can be hard to pump out of but never had that problem with the older bottles.

@Bestdrinkever

I totally agree. The conical shaped bottles I was on originally were still better than either of the cylindrical bottles.

I seem to be doing ok on the newer cylindrical bottles. The ones with the printed on info. The gel in them reminds me of the conical bottles as it seems to be thicker than the gel in the earlier cylindrical bottles with the stuck on labels (the other difference is the boxes that contain the thinner gel also has a sticker to seal the ends of the box, whereas the printed on label ones have a small perforation Next to the lid to open it).

Can you post a photo of the newest bottles? They seem to be very different yet again.

I'm working through bottles I got around 4 months ago. The only difference is the gel feels slightly wetter and thinner. But that's quite subjective.

I'm too old to be noticing peri type symptoms, if it is different, but I am using it for bone density as well and it's going to be very annoying to say the least if it's not doing its job.

My consultant has had no negative feedback from other patients when I queried it with them a few months ago.

@JinglingSpringbells

I have photographed both types of cylindrical bottles side by side as well as their boxes. The one on the left of the photos is the first type of cylindrical bottles I got prescribed, and the ones on the right are the better ones with the prints on info and thicker gel. the pump mechanism on the both are identical, which is why I didn’t bother with lid off photos. I can take some more if you like.

I also noticed that the side the boxes open are different, which I tried to show in the photos too.

Left hand bottle:
-Has a lid with a tuck in tab
-Has a clear sticker to seal/open the lid
-Lid opens on the side with POM written
-Bottle has shiny information sticker stuck on
-Gel is thinner/more runny

Right hand bottle:
-Has a glued down lid
-Has a perforation to open the lid (which I don’t use)
-Perforation to open lid is on the side with Besins logo
-Bottle is matt with printed on infoormation
-Gel is thicker/less runny

I hope that helps. Shout if you want any extra info :)

@JinglingSpringbells

Sorry it wouldn’t let me put all the photos in one post. Here is one of the box lids.

Thanks a lot. I don't think mine is like that.

I will check!
I've got the cylinder shape with the little plastic 'tag' to cover the nozzle. It doesn't have the perforations on the cardboard lid.

@JinglingSpringbells

Both types of cylinder bottle have the same nozzle with the little plastic tag to cover it, so you can’t tell them apart that way. I can put up a side by side photo if you’d like to see?

However, if none of your boxes have the perforation then you haven’t got any of the second type of bottle yet. I think it might depend on the pharmacy as I have a friend who has never had the second type either.

Thank you :)

I know what you mean about the perforations as I'm sure the cardboard box had those at some point (maybe years ago?)

I picked up the current boxes around 5 months ago. I had a couple of the older flagon type to use first.

The plastic sticker is a nuisance and I've always got to get scissors out to cut it.

@JinglingSpringbells

Just checking that you did see both of my photo posts? As I did take photos of the perforations and both types of bottles there for you (I just didn’t take photos of the nozzles).

I hate the plastic sticker too. It takes me far too long to get it to peel it back, but I’m too lazy to go hunt for some scissors.

I did thanks. Appreciated.
My first reply to you was about the boxes but then I saw the previous photos too.

There definitely was a perforated opening on some boxes before but I can't remember when!

I will check the other 2 bottles I have but I'm pretty sure they are all the same with the same dates.

I found 3 sachets I had still of sandrena and within 48hrs my joint pain eased again& I slept better no hot flush wake up. There’s definitely something going on with the absorption or consistency of this oestrogel. My sil also had same issue after years on the gel and has switched to patches but I can’t use them as I had a reaction to the adhesive. I’ve put in a perscription request for sandrena again hopefully I can get it mid week

I keep checking back and I'm finding this so awful that because there appears to be discrepancies and inconsistency with Besin Oestrogen women are having to worry so much. Sandrena didn't work for me, it made me feel terrible as did Evorel patches. I've not worked out if it's too much oestrogen or too little, but due to my other health conditions I end up sometimes needing to go to A&E because of the systemic issues caused by the gel not being consistent. I've got one bottle from a friend that I know is the 'good stuff' but after that, I'm so scared. I managed to get some gel from Spain, but it's in a tube, so I've not idea how that's going to go...and then I'd have to fly out there if it works. None of the pharmacies I went to had Besin Oestrogen. I got 2 round bottles from Gibraltar, but they seem to be the ones everyone is saying are not good, with the stick on label. If anyone has any suggestions I'd be really grateful.

I am.sorry for you I totally understand..I went on Facebook marketplace and bought old bottles. It has gotten me out of a jam perhaps you could try that too?

I've got the new type of cylindrical bottles this time (one with perforated packaging). Will report back after I use it.

Mildly excited!

I have also been having issues. I had been on Evorel patches but found I was having issues with it so started using the gel again. I was fine and doing well until I went for a repeat prescription and was given the shiny bottle with the label suck on. All my symptoms have returned, it is as if I have come off the medication completely.

I came on here for sdvice and I am shocked so many people have similar problems.

I am not sure what to go on now. I am also wondering whether I am not tolerating HRT after being on it for 4 years.

@rewilded i switched to sandrena 1mg sachets after years been quite happy on oestrogel until the packaging changes. It took a week or so to settle down but it’s worked for me. Worth checking your on the right level of progesterone though. I got completely unbalanced as my mirena coil had failed due to some other gyn issues not picked up for a year.

If the mirena coil is your main progesterone and you are having issues after four years it may need changing. I got fobbed off being told it would be fine for 5 years but it wasn’t for me.

Thank you both, I hadn't thought about my mirena failing.

I have found a stray 100mg patch which I have put on until I can talk to my GP on Monday.

I think it would be unlikely they would replace my Mirena coil until it expires though.

There are a couple of things to think about @rewilded

If you feel it's not working after 4 years the best thing is to increase the dose(this is regardless of the possible issues with some of the gel.)

What size patch were you on?
If it was a 50mcg patch the equivalent in gel is 2 pumps. If you feel it's not working now, try 3 pumps?
If you used 100mcg patch then that's 4 pumps of gel.

The Mirena is licensed for 4 years as part of HRT.
Some GPs will leave it in for 5, but it can be changed after 4 years.

Hi I know this is an old thread but I have also experienced problems with the 'new' bottles - going from 3 pumps to 5 pumps.

With the bottle I'm currently on I have been woken up every hour from about 2am with a hot flush for the last 3 weeks or so - I'm a teacher and having to go to work on very little sleep. It's horrendous.

Am wondering whether to go onto patches. I feel desperate. Anyone else still suffering?

@clementine20 I switched to patches and found them much easier than the gel. Worth a try.

I had to go back on the patches. The pharmacist said they were still having problems with the gel and I am surprised they haven't recalled the lot.

I had a terrible time for a month when I switched from the old gel to the new. Deeply depressed. Luckily I knew it was the gel and switched to 75mg patches and feel back to normal again now.

Very happy on patches now, after the gel let me down.
I don't think I'd go back (unless the patches let me down).

@LarkspurLane @rewilded @pharmachameleon
Can I ask which patches you’re on?

I’m on Sandrena now due to problems with the gel and overall it is better but still not great. I have to take 3 x 1mg sachets to feel almost as good as I did on 4 pumps of the old oestrogel!

This feels quite high and I wonder if I’d be better off on 100mcg patches.

Have you found them better?