Week 3 - May 22 Low Carb Bootcamp - moving on to Light?

[BIWI]

Good morning!

Here's the Spreadsheet of Fabulousness once more

So today you have a choice: you can move on to Bootcamp Light, if you wish - which means you can re-introduce some fruit, some nuts/seeds and some alcohol. Note the use of the word 'some'!

If you wish, you can also now introduce/re-introduce intermittent fasting - most people drop breakfast, but it's up to you how you want to do this. @StuntNun has a thread about how to combine fasting with low carb for anyone who is interested in this approach.

You can, if you wish, remain on Bootcamp, if it suits you and it's working for you. Alternatively you can adopt a hybrid - so Bootcamp during the week and Bootcamp Light at the weekend.

Whichever route you decide upon, good luck!

I saw that thread and decided that I couldn't be faffed posting on it. They had pre-conceived ideas of what was involved and were all determined to think the worst of it . Not open minded at all

The amount of veg that I have on this WoE (I'm much more conscious of trying to insert veg into meal), the improvement to my skin, the good food I eat (so many of us are Foodies ), the choice, the no longer being ruled by hunger pangs ...... and losing weight. What's not to love?

And yes, I do occasionally eat more carby things. I usually try to do so "mindfully" and get straight back in to this WoE but I do also occasionally fall off the wagon. I do eventually get back on because I know it works

When I was young (in my 20s and even my 30s), yes, I could "eat anything" but now I'm post menopausal and do need to be more careful

Ok so now I'm completely bewildered about what shape I must have been previously, or my tolerance of discomfort (or both). Spurred on by others' clothes clear outs I tackled my overflowing socks/undies drawer, trying everything on and binning what didn't fit. Having lived solely in lycra crop tops since lockdown, I have now binned 8 bras and after some debate kept 3 - one of which is nearly a good fit (could wear at a pinch) and two are still too small but I think will be a decent fit if I lose another half stone. The rest all simultaneously gape, sag and pinch/squash. What's really surprising is that they're almost all the same size and from M&S yet they all fit (or rather don't) very differently. I can't imagine what shape I must have been for them to ever have fitted. 😕My tolerance of discomfort has definitely decreased of late though as I also binned 10 pairs of knickers on the basis of "scratchy waistband material". 😄

I am 172cm and I love this seasons dresses. I can just throw one on for work. Mine are very long and I was wondering earlier in the week how you could wear them if you were shorter. Mine are long on me. Some of my friends would be tripping over them. Usually I find trousers etc too short so I may stock up on a few more before everything gets shorter again

@Baystard it might be worth checking out the Boob or Bust calculator if you're looking for replace your bras. I'm a size 30GG so I can't buy from M&S where they try to put me into the sister size 34E which is simultaneously unsupportive and cuts in dreadfully despite being much too big on the band.

@Baystard One of the best parts for me of shrinking is to arrange at suitable intervals a fitting at www.rigbyandpeller.com/en-gb/stores

No measuring tapes in sight, the revelation for me was the difference it makes to have someone adjust the shoulder straps so that the bra fits properly. Their promise is that they can fit everyone either in a standard size or custom made. In my early twenties I read about them in Cosmopolitan magazine and saved up for a visit. Of course they had a range of bras for me to try and the first one they suggested fitted perfectly. All done by eye based on a heap of experience.

Nowadays when my shape has changed significantly snd sufficiently to warrant a new bra, I take a days holiday and have a fitting, possibly followed by lunch in Town.

My favourite NSV a smaller band size. I have a long way to go but already looking forward to it.

Hi all. Catchung up.... I have a very sway back so know what you mean re the pelvic tilt. I've found yoga v helpful too.

Totally overheating here. Is it an age thung? Or a weight thing? Or both?

Well I definitely eat Far more healthily on this woe - sat down with a massive bacon and avocado salad, cuc, lettuce, spinch, olive oil. In other times I'd probably have had a bacon sarnie with a salad garnish. Treated myself to a tiny delicious flat white coffee out this morning and resisted all the carby treats in the cafe so 😇😇😇

Where do people buy their almond flour?
And do you recommend any low carb bread or crackers for the ocassional munch?

Always have a packet of the rolls from

https://seriouslylowcarb.com/collections/seriously-low-carb-food/products/the-low-carb-loaf?gclid=Cj0KCQjwvqeUBhCBARIsAOdt45bXoi3QKXRwf0RObwaKUmJJoHrXjamodWJ40842qi9w22NkRY5O0saAouEALw_wcB

in the freezer for those times when a bacon roll really does seem like the only thing to want. The rolls are quite large and defrost in ten minutes. They are quite large so that two slices of back bacon can easily be justified.

We have served them as late breakfast to friends and family who have never twigged that they are low carb.

I'm less keen on the rolls, as I think they're a bit too big, but I do buy them occasionally. Mostly I buy their sliced bread and always try to have one loaf in the freezer.

I don't think anyone would ever realise they're not 'proper' bread!

Thanks v much. Wow can't believe how low carb that bread is! A loaf in the freezer will be ideal 😊

I also read the other thread but didn't see any point in posting.... I did wonder though whether the low carb bootcamp could do with a complete re-branding. If you called it a "whole foods WOE focussed on filling your plate with lots of vegetables for carbs and fibre" then people would be all over it (admittedly, it's not the catchiest title!). I 100% agree that the confusion between low carb and no carb/keto is probably the biggest cause of the issue. Specifically, all of the massively processed protein bars, dessert replacements and other expensive food items that attempt to allow keto followers to eat the same diet as normal just by using substitute products rather than encouraging the large increase in vegetable consumption that this bootcamp does.

I certainly used to think low carb was also a faddy and unsustainable diet and I'm really glad I got diagnosed as pre-diabetic as I seriously doubt I would have tried this way of eating otherwise!

I don't think it really matters what we call it, @pinknsparkly. Those who believe that the only way to diet is to CICO will never be convinced.

Their loss, frankly!

Rigby & Peller sounds like a good idea @FinallyHere - when I'd just had DC there was a brilliant lady who visited the maternity unit with a big suitcase and fitted maternity bras and agree that getting the straps properly fitted made a huge difference.

Thanks for that calculator suggestion @stuntnun - it suggests 34G which is presumably why my 36DD isn't a good fit!!

I buy almond flour from Whole Foods Market (online)www.buywholefoodsonline.co.uk/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwvqeUBhCBARIsAOdt45ZgO0kIi2UvUupr8d3abcEpY331AOGb4ihjG3S3i8Qcnw9dIkvttYoaAmQiEALw_wcB - they do it in large bags and it's the best price I've found @FinallyHere .

@BIWI
‘ I don't think it really matters what we call it, @pinknsparkly. Those who believe that the only way to diet is to CICO will never be convinced.

Their loss, frankly!‘

or not their loss , as the case may be 😂

Indeed!

@colouringindoors I buy 500g bags of ground almonds from Sainsburys. You don't necessarily need almond flour which is ground more finely and is much more expensive. They sell it in Holland and Barrett but it won't necessarily give better results.

I usually get measured for bras at Bravissimo and then buy one from them then others cheaper in the same size style from eBay or other online shops but I do fancy trying Rigby and Peller next time I'm in the market for new bras after @FinallyHere 's description.

I like the Seriously Low Carb Rolls but only with a 6oz burger which Lidl sometimes sell but haven't had in for ages. As @BIWI says, they're too big for a quarter pounder. I buy the Seriously Low Carb bread mix and make it up in the breadmaker to get a "proper" size loaf rather than the tiny slices of their ready made loaves.

I'm not much of a fan of SLC bread or rolls, seems a bit tasteless to me, and without taste what is the point.

@pinknsparkly totally agree about keto bars and dessert replacements. Ditto all the faux vegetarian food (Tesco and Derek Sarno I am looking at YOU). The bottom line is that food manufacturers (MAKING pretend food rather than growing it) don't benefit at all from the move towards a diet that has less meat in it. Unless, UNLESS genious idea they create some pretend version of meat, full of processed elements and additives (good ones and bad one) and label it as 'plant based'. Honestly, what alot of crap we are being fed. Physically and metaphorically!

OK, rant over for a while

There's a bit of old advice I like which I try to remember when I see some goady threads/posters on MN @BIWI . "Never wrestle with a pig, you'll both get dirty, put the pig will like it!" 😜

B- black coffee
L- smoked haddock in cheese sauce, followed with fried sea bass with asparagus, lots of buttered veg and a spicy garlicky buttery sauce.
D- low carb toast and butter

I contentedly nibbled the tiny dark choc mint that came with my espresso while the others in my group had dessert. I'd had a super LC lunch so felt relaxed about the mint and honestly I'm sure I enjoyed it as much as I'd previously have enjoyed a sugary dessert, it felt like a little treat.

@Baystard "Never wrestle with a pig, you'll both get dirty, put the pig will like it!" 😜 I just snorted my tea when I read this, SUCH a great phrase 😂

And @Mercedesbenz2022 - very true! After spending six months of my pregnancy weighing and measuring every item of food and drink I consumed (I had to reduce my carbs, but also had a minimum target that I struggled to meet thanks to nausea and every carb had to paired with equal or greater weight of protein or fat which made eating very complicated!) I can't imagine anything more miserable than a constant cycle of a lifetime weighing and measuring my food in order to stick to CICO! CICO does 100% work, but LC is so much easier and I'm a nicer person on it and get to eat what at least feels like way more food 😂

Breakfast - creamy coffee
Brunch - homemade coleslaw and grated cheese
Late lunch - Greek yoghurt and flaxseed
Dinner - gammon, mashed swede and (small amount of) peas.

Couple of cans of 'hard selzer' which is basically vodka and soda with a bit of flavouring. They claim to be low sugar and certainly don't taste particularly sweet, but very refreshing especially after a day of housework and decorating. I bought them on offer, I'll go back to regular vodka and soda with a slice once I've run out of these.

All the bra talk is making me jealous, I've currently got one bra that actually fits well and a few that are kind of okay. I'm an awkward shape and cheap bras don't fit right, the best one I have is triumph I think and I can't currently afford to buy more. Once we're in a better place, I'm very tempted by the R&P experience, if we have one near here.

@RagzRebooted coleslaw with graated cheese is the food of Gods. IT's funny because it used to be that one of my mist hated foods was coleslaw, but that was probably cheap, vinegary, full of onions, watery with the 'sauce' getting on everything on your plate. By comparison, some delicious cabbage, a bit or carrot, some radish, a heap of creamy mayonnaise, balck pepper, maybe a few chopped capers to add piquancy. Brilliant. Then add chopped ham, grated cheese, sliced raw mushrooms...

I still have friends who look at me eating that and say 'but you don't like coleslaw'

@Mercedesbenz2022 @pinknsparkly OH yes - there was someone on the 'other thread' who posted about CICO who spent their life weighing every SINGLE thing they ate. I cannot image how awful that would be.

Plus it really doesn't work like that. The amount you have to exercise to outrun a Mars Bar is ridiculous.

Another thing I love about the bootcamp threads is that although there is talk about exercise: swimming, running, walking - and I hope those who love exercise feel encouraged and supported - there is no requirement to do X, Y, or Z amount of cario or HIIT, or weights, or wahtever phew because I hate getting hot and sweaty

I try to move around move. Whether that is getting out for a walk, a liitle ride on my electric bike, getting up off my office chair. I feel encouraged in doing that. Good on you bootcampers.

Thanks very much for all your kind messages yesterday, I appreciate them all 🙏 I got a good night's sleep and went for a walk by myself on the beach this morning which means I was a much calmer patent today, which makes DS calmer too. He is only 4.5 but has been flagged as 'not typical' since 9 months, so we'll see what the next few weeks bring after his assessment sessions

B: scrambled eggs with avo
L: leftover 1/2 chicken kyiv with leaves and dressing, olives
D: getting our sushi takeaway tonight 😋 I am just getting salmon and tuna and going to have some tenderstem broccoli and avo with it
1 creamy coffee
Have one litre of water to go but will get through it

Your saying made me laugh @Baystard

I don't know if anyone has read the obesity code by Jason Fung, I got it on audiobook for my car journey yday and listened on my walk today. He explains why CICO doesn't work. You lose weight to start, then plateau, then eat less, still don't lose any weight, then give up and put it all back on plus extra... sounded very familiar to me, that's pretty much my adult life to date! So hoping this woe will not be that cycle of hope/despair, 2 weeks in and it feels very sustainable.

@IveNeverTriedThisBefore I think with all differnt approaches there is a 'plateau' but what I (and many) find is that this way of eating and living is sustainable in the long term - which I don't think low calorie approaches are.

You might be surprised to see that when people plateau, the advice is that: they might think about increasing their fat! 'Put more butter on your vegetables'. Maybe also increasing water, and maybe looking at the kind of dairy they eat and how it might impact them. But I have NEVER seen any advice on here that suggests eat less (unless people are really close to target weight, in which case portion size might be considered - but it is portion size overall, not eat less of X or Y)

As a 60something woman (how on earth did that happen?!), I've tried all manner of ways to lose weight since I realised, in my mid-twenties, that I was gaining. If you look at my bookshelves you can see them all.

It was, initially, calorie counting - because everyone knows that it's just about the calories. Then it was the F-plan, then Rosemary Conley - which led to the whole low/no fat movement. All of which led to (not exactly disordered eating but) a bit of an obsession with counting and weighing - and so misery and always feeling that I was either failing or deprived or - worse - both.

It was when I read "Escape the Diet Trap" by Dr John Briffa that I felt the scales dropping from my eyes.

Understanding - finally - that failing to lose weight wasn't about poor willpower, but about the food choices that I was making, was such a revelation.

All of this, together, is ultimately what took me to start Bootcamp - basing it on low carb but also not having to weigh or count anything, as that had come to represent an obsessive (and a dysfunctional and miserable) relationship with food.

I love food, and eating. And I fervently believe that low carbing is the only way you can reconcile this with losing weight.

"Never wrestle with a pig" 😂Also loved @Jollyholibobs "detritus soup".

I ate dinner tonight and suddenly realised that I was getting full...and stopped. Even though I thought my portion was quite reasonable to start with. I'm enjoying getting to know my real appetite.

Re. R&P do they do fittings for small-breasted folks? I thought about Bravissimo once but I think they are more for the generously endowed. But I definitely need new bras. I don't have a single one that fits properly. I either have covers - stretched out and there only for show, or ones where the band is uncomfortable and seems tight but I think from reading it's probably the band that's wrong. I'm also quite long in the back, so straps often don't seem long enough.

Today was a bit of a scrabble for me, too. I have lots of veg but not all that much that seemed to go together.

B - Greek style yoghurt, double cream, sprinkle of flaked almonds. (I know we're not measuring/weighing, but I did, and found it interesting that last week adding 30ml cream filled me up. This week, 15ml filled me up just as much, so it's good to know that I'm learning what I need to eat)

L - Salad: Iceberg lettuce, cucumber, baby plum tomatoes, olives, feta cheese; olive oil and cider vinegar dressing.

D - Slow-roast pork with fennel seeds, dwarf beans and peppers fried in butter and oil, with a parmesan crust. Broccoli with butter. (Felt like I'd overeaten a bit after that)

Fluid: 3 x 750ml water, 5 cups of tea with almond milk, one cup of tea with full fat milk.

DH and I are trying to stick to a mostly keto diet with the odd slip, I think he's reluctant to add the butter/fats suggested (we've been using the Fats of Life recipes) and i wonder if that's why I've plateaued a bit? I keep adding butter and salt as he's so used to not using these.
We both had a reasonable amount to lose and while I'm delighted with the current loss, I really want to hit my target and then put on a bit if I feel too thin (seems highly unlikely!) or just give myself a bit of leeway to eat out occasionally and have the odd treat.

I never thought I'd give up sugar but I have! It feels like a miracle still 😆