Week 3 - Low Carb Bootcamp - the hard work is over!

[BIWI]

Morning all!

Well done everyone for getting through the first two weeks. Still a bit of carb flu around by the sound of it though. Remember it's really important to keep your electrolyte levels up, with all the water that we're drinking. This means plenty of salt!

I know we're all told to keep the salt down, but it's (yet another) thing when you're low carbing that runs counter to expectations. Cook with it, and put it on your food.

Here's a really good post about salt and why we need it

As well as sodium, we also need magnesium and potassium - salmon, spinach, avocado and (full fat) natural yoghurt are all good.

Bootcamp Light

So now, if you want to, you can move on to Bootcamp Light. The rules for this are on the Spreadsheet of Fabulousness

(Oh, and don't forget [[www.mumsnet.com/bootcamp the Weight Tracker as well)

Essentially the differences are that you can, if you want, start to skip breakfast if you're not hungry - I know that lots of people have problems with eating first thing. By now you should have stabilised your blood sugar levels, so if you're not hungry in the morning (or at any other time of the day) you don't have to force yourself to eat. Just make sure you don't end up ravenous later on and without anything appropriately low carb to eat!

You can introduce some fruit - berries or rhubarb only (although bear in mind that rhubarb will need to be sweetened, which will mean using an artificial sweetener; stevia is probably the best one to use - brands are PureVia or Truvia.) But be careful not to go mad - it's an occasional thing, and in moderation!

Similarly with nuts and seeds. These can be introduced now as snacks, but go easy. They can quickly add lots of carbs to your diet. Almonds and macadamias are the lowest in carbs. And if in doubt, check the carb count on the back of the packet

And you can also introduce alcohol, but with the same warnings about moderation! Spirits like vodka and gin are the best, as these are low carb - drink them with sparkling water or - if you have to - slimline tonic. Champagne, dry white and red wine are allowed, but these do have carbs, so go easy.

The week 3 (or 4, or 5) stall

PLEASE NOTE! IT IS VERY, VERY COMMON FOR WEIGHT LOSS TO STOP ALTOGETHER AT THIS POINT.

This is to do with your body switching from carb-burning to fat-burning - StuntNun posted a really good post about this last week, I think, and I'll ask her to re-post. It is entirely normal and doesn't signal that you're doing anything wrong.

However - you may feel, knowing this, that you want to stay on Bootcamp for a bit longer. There is no problem doing that, as long as you are getting your carbs from vegetables and salad. You may want to consider doing Bootcamp during the week and Bootcamp Light at the weekend.

So good luck everyone! Here's to another good week

jimmy I like the idea I am transforming into a butterfly! Certainly feels that way, there is no feeling as good as weight loss. I agree Facebook isn't great for making you feel rubbish. I have been trying to cut down and it does help so maybe it would be great to cut it out further.

I feel lighter today! Clothes noticeably looser. I also had the most delicious lunch in the world as a treat. Scallops fried in butter and olive oil; tossed some asparagus and flaked almonds in the pan too. And had an avocado salad. Breakfast was some salami so feeling very full of good food today. And supper is my extremely lovely prawn curry with cauli rice. Yum.

Had a very different lunch today, I normally eat beef, chicken etc but today I had the following

2 lush sausages from aldi that I found that are 2g / 100g
3 slices of crispy bacon
2 eggs scrambled
Mushrooms fried in butter

Hubby cannot believe that I can eat this on my 'diet'

I actually feel like I've had a huge greasy fry up!

pingufan I had exactly the same amount of each for 3 dinners last week - quick to prepare and tasty

I don't feel deprived and the increase of energy, less fatigue, better sleep are worth it!

I even am recovering from feeling stressed easier, but this may also be to do with the fact that I feel quite motivated in other areas of my life now I can see I can slim down and am not worried about suffering from various weight induced illnesses. I started over thinking and speculating when they are going to appear. Over all I am very healthy person.
The only ongoing issue is my back which gets sore if I am stressed, and I was at work this week.

I had an onset of scalloped tongue. It was as bad as having toothache for several weeks . Consultant said it may be stress related. So I turned to mindfulness which lead me to reading about Buddhism. However I won't ever be a real Buddhist as I don't believe in any rituals to do with Higher Spirits etc. Unless of course there's a guru out there for me who can show me Buddhism without deities and prayers.

Fortunately my tongue seems to have recovered. I don't know if that's due to Buddhist meditation cd's I listened to or books about mindfulness I read or perhaps that now over 3 weeks on this WOE. I feel better than I felt for ages!

Hi everyone,
Sorry I've been a little absent, just not felt well enough. Loads better today and getting ready for a short notice In Law visit tomorrow.

lowcarbforthewin thank you for bringing up the emotional stuff. Low carb eating I think is helpful for bringing this all up, and it's terrible because it brings it all up. trashy is referring to me slightly there I think - I am about a month off 2 years sobriety, I was in a terrible place with my drinking and am permanently disabled after an accident that happened after what turned out to be my last drink. I have recovered a lot of my function and am taking a massive leap of faith and going back to work in a few weeks. SO I am not dealing with as severe disability as you but I hope you understand that I DO get it.

Last year, as I recovered, I used eating as my new crutch. I use shopping, sometimes, too. I have had such huge benefits from working with a counsellor I really related to, especially once I stopped plugging the hole with food.

I've had 2 (I think) unplanned, emotionally driven, carby 'binges' over the last 5 months. I can imagine that the dairy restriction feels tough and in some ways makes the risk of a 'binge' higher, as that's the psychological result of the deprivation. Keep talking. This thread can pretty much take anything, it has done so far.

alley and pingu it's normal not to be losing, normal. Just plod on and please don't get downhearted.

Notso sounds like you are in a bit of a dip, struggling too. I hope binning the scales helps you focus, and I know what you mean about not eating in company.

Lego you don't need dairy! -it stalls a number of people. You should be cooking with butter, but otherwise, really don't worry. It's a good source of calcium and magnesium but you can get those from dark green veg - spinach, broccoli etc.

I'm making frozen yogurt from my yogurt maker to serve tomorrow - it's got vanilla powder and home made raspeberry puree - mmmm. A BCL treat!

As a complex emotional eater, I would urge the staplers to stick with it. I really struggle with diets because the hunger is unbearable for me, and gives me flashbacks to my abusive childhood. When I feel hungry with this WOE, I don't have the light headed carb addiction going on, so for the first time, I can actually think about whether it is physical or emotional hunger. It's usually emotional, and I have been working very hard on distracting myself and building my self esteem, which just wasn't possible for me on 'diets'.

I have been boot camping for nearly 3 months and had my first stall for the past couple of weeks, which really upset me as I can't face this not working as I love it so much. Yesterday I plotted my meals on my fitness pal, and I gave really let the carbs creep up- mainly by excessive roasted cauliflower and buttery mushrooms. I didn't need to eat it all, it was the emotional fullness I was looking for. Today I have halved my portions and realised I am not hungry. It's a real learning process, but so worthwhile.

LittleMiss thank you so much for sharing! It means a lot. it sounds like you have done so well. I hope going back to work is successful.
Parsnip I agree that this diet makes it much easier to tell if you're physically or emotionally hungry. When I get thirsty I crave sugar too, so really upping the water helps.
I had a really good day today in so far as I felt lighter and suddenly this whole thing just felt easier. Still not sure if I'll have a scale loss but every sweet thing I don't give into eating suddenly feels like it is worth something and will lead to me being in a really good place, rather than just being about deprivation. I so enjoyed my meals today too. I'm not missing Greek yogurt nearly as much as I feared.
Duck eggs and pesto for breakfast tomorrow, looking forward to them. They're my ultimate treat right now.

Thanks LittleMiss.

Well I successfully avoided the freshly baked, still warm, bread that was put down right in front of me at our pub lunch. I ordered a steak with no chips, but they still bought chips with it, and sent them back untouched.

Dinner at ILs was bread, cheese and cake. I avoided all but a bit of cheese.

Unfortunately I didn't manage to swerve the wine. Hopefully it's not to much damage though.

Nice one Alley! I think it's an important realisation that we are in charge of what we eat. The carby snacks, the cheats and the treats will all still be there when we reach our maintenance weights.

Evening all, I suspect we are suffering a little from strict bootcamp dip, just because we can move to BCL doesn't mean it's the right thing for everyone. It's particularly hard when you socialise or go out for dinner and you feel a little out of control. I definitely felt like that this evening when DH suggested an impromptu dinner out with the DCs.
We went to giraffe which has a reasonable menu but looking closely everything was served with chips or tabbouleh or some other 'healthy' carby veg. In the end I went with piri piri chicken and gave DS my chips, just didn't feel very special nor a treat (but eating late with a toddler in public is not exactly relaxing) :)
We got home and I've just baked Dss a birthday cake - avoided licking anything but had some wine then just felt a sudden urge for sweet stuff and fell into a flapjack.... And then spat all of it out :( such grim and spineless behaviour, feel pretty gross really.

Anyway just wanted to say to those who are struggling that I think we all have our highs and lows and really I can think of very little food and drink that is actually worth leaving this WOE for.

Top tips there - parsnip and stunt . I logged my day on MFP yesterday and realised my average roasted cauliflower portion was about 600g and therefore about 30g carbs ..... Ok for maintenance methinks - but not perhaps for shaving a few pounds off .
Out of interest stunt what does your total calories look like when you are in a loosing weight phase ? My calories yesterday were 1800 - and with not much to loose I am guessing I probably need to get that down to - what 1400 ?

Good advice parsnip also re: trying to decide if I am physically hungry or not . I tried 'scaling' yesterday and If I really calmed down , had a glass of water and thought about it - mostly it was less than 5/10 for actual physical gut rumbling hunger .....

I am trying this approach again today .

< waves hello to all>

This is the confusing side of it to me. One minute I'm reading that calories in / out doesn't matter and by cutting the carbs right back you will lose weight regardless then I'm reading that too many calories does matter.

If the calories do matter then unlimited butter and oils is probably whats scuppering me as I have it in my breakfast eggs and over in veg / salad and in cooking.

Peony my basal metabolic rate plus exercise requirements gives me a target of 1950 calories a day and when I do log them it's usually around that, sometimes slightly lower (1900) or quite a bit higher (2200). The macros are more important than the total calories unless you're drastically overeating. I aim for 5-10% carbs, 15-20% protein and 75% fat. To keep losing near maintenance weight I reckon keeping the carbs low (around 5% or below 20g) is the best way to promote weight loss for two reasons:

1. It limits carb creep which can become a real problem when you relax a bit and the berries, nuts and chocolate become a daily habit rather than a BCL treat.
2. Your appetite is much more effectively controlled when carbs are very low so you won't overeat.

Note that this really only applies to people that are near their maintenance weight. If you still have a bit to lose then I really wouldn't bother with logging your calories. It can be useful if you're trying Ubercamp to break a stall but a big benefit of this WOE is that you don't have to measure everything you eat SO LONG AS YOU ARE FOLLOWING THE RULES!

But Peony I definitely don't recommend dropping your calories to 1400. The rule to eat when you're hungry is vital to keep your metabolic rate going and to ensure you are losing fat and not losing lean muscle mass. In my opinion the issue with overeating comes more from mindless nomming of nuts or pork scratchings when you aren't really that hungry. My way around this is to weigh out food. So for example I weigh out half the packet of pork scratchings, or an ounce of macadamia nuts or count out ten almonds then put the packet away. If you eat the snack slowly, one at a time and savour it then at the end you may find you don't need any more. If you're still hungry then you can always go back for another helping.

I wonder if I've fallen into the same trap with portion size affecting my daily carb intake. Weight has not budged for the past week, and even übercamp hasn't shifted an ounce. Feeling a bit demoralized here!
Good idea re the mfp plotting, think I'll try that today.
Have a good day everyone

Yes if you just replace eating of crisps when you're not hungry with eating of scratchings or nuts then that is likely to cause issues.

Morning everyone.enjoying a lovely lie in.but I wish my house elf would bring me a cup of coffee.
Last night I had pan fried plaice, cabbage,asparagus and for that extra salty goodness, samphire. My oh my is it salty! And full of iodine and magnesium I hear. I had some strawberries and lidl yogurt. My taste buds have definitely changed as dh drowned his in sugar, mine tasted lovely.
Planning breakfast, sick of eggs, but there was some cold sausages in the fridge. Di big shop yesterday got Brazil nuts,, as they are lower carb than almonds.
I'm stalling a bit, but I don't eat huge meals.have cut down the dairy, so maybe wave goodbye to the three strawberries I allow myself and the nuts.

Not called for pseudo nor true. Thanks so much for the support.

Stuntnun, looking at the percentage breakdown of your macros I would think I'm eating too much protein, I have meat of some kind with every meal, a whole chicken breast or leg, 200g minced beef etc. I do eat some fat in the form of butter, mayo or olive oil but I doubt 75% of my intake is fat.

How do I get that much fat in? What sort of amounts of butter or oil are we talking of actually in a plateful of food?

Teawithlemon, I think pseudo was replying to stuntnuns post to her above yours wrt the pork scratchings x

I'll try to answer your concerns Pingu. Be aware that I run the risk of oversimplifying in order to be understandable so please ask questions if you need more information.

"Calories in / out doesn't matter."
Calories in / out absolutely does matter in that you will only lose weight by using more calories than you consume. This WOE is particularly forgiving compared to a low calorie diet for three reasons.

Firstly a calorie isn't a calorie. If you eat 100 calories of table sugar then your body gets 50 calories of glucose and 50 calories of fructose. However if you eat 100 calories of protein on a very low carb diet your body needs to turn some protein into glucose to feed the parts of the body that can only run on glucose such as the retinas. Now turning protein into glucose (by gluconeogenesis in the liver) isn't very efficient so of those 100 protein calories you only get 39 calories of glucose. So this example how the calories in / out isn't an exact sum on this WOE.

The second reason is that this WOE preserves metabolic rate. On a reduced calorie diet your metabolic rate will drop to try and balance your calories in / out. So you could eat 1400 calories a day and your body will only use 1400 calories a day and you wouldn't lose any weight. On this WOE by cutting carbs and lowering insulin levels then you regain access to your fat stores. When insulin levels are high your fat cells hold on to your fat and won't release it. When insulin levels are low then fat constantly flows in and out of your fat cells. This means there is a constant supply of fat (in the form of free fatty acids) in your blood that your body can use for energy. One side effect of this WOE is more consistent energy and lack of fatigue e.g. in the mid afternoon and this is why, the steady supply of fat that your muscles can use. So because you have a continuous energy supply in the form of fat being released from your fat cells then your metabolic rate is preserved and you continue to burn calories at the same rate.

The third reason is the preservation of lean body mass. One problem with the traditional Weight Watchers type of diet is that your weight loss will consist of both fat and lean body mass, i.e. muscle. This causes two problems. You need that muscle so when you come off the diet the first thing your body will do is to put the muscle back on so your weight increases. Also as muscle burns more calories then reducing your lean muscle mass actually lowers the rate at which you can use calories so you have to eat even less to lose weight. This WOE on the other hand preserves lean muscle mass so, once you have used up your glycogen stores and lost some water at the start the rest of your weight loss should be pure fat.

"By cutting carbs right back you will lose weight regardless."
The fundamental idea of any low carb diet is that cutting carbs reduces insulin levels which allows you to use up your fat stores. As you have seen on these threads there are people struggling with their weight loss. This WOE works for the majority of people but some people will need to tweak it a little and there are a whole load of reasons such as: If you have an underlying thyroid disorder or a hormone problem such as PCOS then it can take longer to adapt to this WOE. If you are a type 1 diabetic then you will probably need to keep carbs below 20g. If you are a serial dieter then your metabolism may be deranged and it may take longer to lose weight on this WOE. There's no way to cover all the potential problems people can have other than to say "your mileage may vary". My DH is always sneaking apples or bread and hasn't stopped drinking beer on this WOE but he has gone down to a BMI of 23.7 and his waist is now 29" I know what a bastard, right? We all have our own carb tolerance and it can take a bit of experimentation to find our own Way of Eating that works for us.

"Too many calories does matter."
I think this really comes in when people approach their maintenance weight and weight loss either slows or stops. In my opinion the biggest problem is probably portion size. When I started this WOE last June I was 11st8, now I'm 9st5 and my daily calorie requirements are about 400 cal less per day than they used to be. But when I eat I tend to serve the same amount as I always did. But for example at my heaviest I would have eaten three sausages for my dinner. Now I probably only need to eat two sausages but out of habit I'm still cooking three for myself. So this is where too many calories become an issue. In my case I need to learn to listen to my body a little better and recognise when I am full and just stick that last sausage in the fridge. I'll have it for breakfast the next day! So that's why sometimes you hear that calories do matter, we can mindlessly overeat either out of habit because we are expecting to need bigger portions, or for other reasons such as being made to clear our plate or to not waste food.

"Unlimited butter and oils is probably what's scuppering me."
Pingu this is absolutely the best thing you could be doing. It is difficult to get enough fat into our diets. At maintenance weight your dietary requirement for fat is higher than when you are losing weight because you won't be using up your fat stores any more. Trust me, getting enough fat at maintenance is the biggest problem. That's the reason for the BPC, it's calories all come from fat. If at maintenance you don't eat enough fat then you will be hungry. So please continue with the butter and the oils, that is the best thing you can be doing!

This has taken me so long to type I'm going to have to catch up on the thread again!

Thank you, I really appreciate the explanation, sorry for all the questions. I think my protein portions may be too big, a typical day is as follows

B 2 eggs with butter and 100g ham
L 1 tin of tuna with lettuce and cucumber and a good dollop of mayo
D chicken breast cooked in butter or leg with salad or some veg with butter

Sometimes dinner will be beef mince cooked with spices and a little passata with olive oil, but meals almost always involve meat. Could this be why I've not lost any thing for two weeks?

I joined boot camp late after already being on a low carb, high protein, low fat plan previously. I had lost 15lbs on that. In the first few days of boot camp I lost 3lbs then a further 2 a few days later but I had a tummy bug so may have been down to that so I've lost 20lbs in total over the past 9 weeks but nothing for the past 2 :(

So sorry tea, I didn't refresh before posting

Had a really busy day driving around to different events yesterday, having to get a 4 year old to activities/bridesmaid dress fittings (all at specific times and miles away from each other). Ate lunch about 12:30pm. Nothing else apart from a sparkiing water and a bpc. Then around 6:30pm felt AWFUL. Really nauseous and faint. DH was putting the kids to bed and I dragged myself to the kitchen to make something to eat. Made a bowl of tuna mayo (easiest thing to make) but just couldn't face it. The texture was all wrong. Ended up eating some salted pistachios and laying on the sofa. They did perk me up tho and I may have yes I did eaten the rest of the packet. Felt absolutely fine afterwards. Don't know if it was the result of a stressful day, not enough food or a lack of salt?

pingufan (and all those who also feel that they are struggling):

pingufan (and all those who also feel that they are struggling):

Whoops! Sorry - ipad has a mind of its own.

What I was going to say was to remind you that it is VERY, VERY, VERY common for weight loss to stop in weeks 3, 4 and even 5. StuntNun wrote a brilliant post on this, which I believe was also repeated on this thread.

Keep on keeping on and things will get moving again, once your body has shifted into fat burning mode.

However it also sounds like it would be worth a re-read of the rules of Bootcamp for some of you. You must eat plenty of fat. Pingufan, it sounds to me like the protein choices you are making are all too lean, which is why it's hard for you to get sufficient fat.

Instead of chicken breast, which will be very high in protein and consequently low in fat, eat chicken thighs - and with the skin on. Are you buying full fat mince? Eat fattier cuts of meat wherever you can.

But, above all, you need to have patience! We are only expecting to see a weight loss of 1-2lbs per week at this stage.