Week 3 - Low Carb Bootcamp - the hard work is over!

[BIWI]

Morning all!

Well done everyone for getting through the first two weeks. Still a bit of carb flu around by the sound of it though. Remember it's really important to keep your electrolyte levels up, with all the water that we're drinking. This means plenty of salt!

I know we're all told to keep the salt down, but it's (yet another) thing when you're low carbing that runs counter to expectations. Cook with it, and put it on your food.

Here's a really good post about salt and why we need it

As well as sodium, we also need magnesium and potassium - salmon, spinach, avocado and (full fat) natural yoghurt are all good.

Bootcamp Light

So now, if you want to, you can move on to Bootcamp Light. The rules for this are on the Spreadsheet of Fabulousness

(Oh, and don't forget [[www.mumsnet.com/bootcamp the Weight Tracker as well)

Essentially the differences are that you can, if you want, start to skip breakfast if you're not hungry - I know that lots of people have problems with eating first thing. By now you should have stabilised your blood sugar levels, so if you're not hungry in the morning (or at any other time of the day) you don't have to force yourself to eat. Just make sure you don't end up ravenous later on and without anything appropriately low carb to eat!

You can introduce some fruit - berries or rhubarb only (although bear in mind that rhubarb will need to be sweetened, which will mean using an artificial sweetener; stevia is probably the best one to use - brands are PureVia or Truvia.) But be careful not to go mad - it's an occasional thing, and in moderation!

Similarly with nuts and seeds. These can be introduced now as snacks, but go easy. They can quickly add lots of carbs to your diet. Almonds and macadamias are the lowest in carbs. And if in doubt, check the carb count on the back of the packet

And you can also introduce alcohol, but with the same warnings about moderation! Spirits like vodka and gin are the best, as these are low carb - drink them with sparkling water or - if you have to - slimline tonic. Champagne, dry white and red wine are allowed, but these do have carbs, so go easy.

The week 3 (or 4, or 5) stall

PLEASE NOTE! IT IS VERY, VERY COMMON FOR WEIGHT LOSS TO STOP ALTOGETHER AT THIS POINT.

This is to do with your body switching from carb-burning to fat-burning - StuntNun posted a really good post about this last week, I think, and I'll ask her to re-post. It is entirely normal and doesn't signal that you're doing anything wrong.

However - you may feel, knowing this, that you want to stay on Bootcamp for a bit longer. There is no problem doing that, as long as you are getting your carbs from vegetables and salad. You may want to consider doing Bootcamp during the week and Bootcamp Light at the weekend.

So good luck everyone! Here's to another good week

[StuntNun]

Please can everyone move over in an orderly fashion to the...

WEEK 4 CHAT THREAD

[trashcanjunkie]

Evening all - lurking as have nothing.... just nothing. Still alive but belly still crook. Love you all.

[ImSoOverIt]

Pisses - I have been looking at making my own sports mix actually, I am going to exercise caution and follow the recipes very carefully as I imagine making it too salty would be like drinking salt water and not too good for you! I am going to order a copy of that book (looks good) and try and go without the carbs if at all possible - I am annoyed I had to resort to then last night but I really felt I needed to at the time!

[Pisseslikeahorse]

ImSoOverIt - i've also been hit by lack of strength oomph whilst doing some of my runs, getting home and being giddy / sick / fatigued until I've eaten something and sat for a while. Yogurt and cream seems to work best for me.
Sadly it seems to have gone in waves over the last few weeks with me feeling better and then back to having to walk (even stop and rest fake stretch ). This week I've run 4 times with increasing strength so fingers crossed.
Getting to my point, I've been toying with salt lemon water on the advice of a triathlete who mixes his own. Or have a look at 'High5 Zero Electrolyte Drink' its zero carb and sugar. And I have to admit I've been thinking about loading carbs a couple days before my race?

[CQ]

HI everyone, just catching up after a busy few days.

Interesting reading about your 'bonk' Imso or whatever it was. I'm a little scared to really push myself at the moment with my running but can manage 4 or 5 miles and hills without feeling too wiped out. Have a 10k race next Sunday so not sure how that will go.

I had a really long day yesterday - had to leave home at 4.30 a.m. to go to an all day school sports thing, 2.5 hours drive away. There was a supporters marquee FULL of bad things to eat and I was really good all day, chose cold meats & salads, cheese without bread etc. But by 6 pm and after our 3rd drenching of the day I weakened and ate just one piece of Victoria sponge. It was bloody lovely and I enjoyed it as a treat and I don't hate myself for it.

I was dreading the drive home - I'm usually crap at night and get really tired and sleepy at the wheel so I plan lots of coffee breaks. But last night I got none of the heavy-eye feelings and felt alert all the way home, even at 10pm. I really feel this WOE has evened out my blood sugar amazingly.

A quick question for any experts out there - how do you know when you are ketoadapted? Will that one small slice of cake push me back to the beginning? I'm not sure how much 'forgiveness' there is in this WOE!

[pingufan]

Thanks for everything stunt, I think I are a little too much veg with my Sunday roast chicken and it seems I eat a bit too much protein too.

I know that protein keeps me full though - hope butter and oils will do the same.

[StuntNun]

Pingu my macros for the day are 7% carbs, 20% protein, 72% fat. I skipped lunch and was still well north of 2000 calories so it looks like two meals a day is more than adequate for me with the way I'm eating these days.

Imso perhaps a bit of carb loading prior to longer training sessions events will carry you through until you are keto adapted. A lot of endurance athletes eat more carbs on training days. Volek and Phinney worked with long distance cyclists so they will definitely have the info you need.

[LittleMissDisorganized]

Hi everyone,
ImSo I suspect you aren't completely ketoadapted yet. It takes 2-4 weeks, and it takes as long as it takes. And once you are ketoadapted then you can start to increase your endurance.

I don't think you can say that because you felt better after toast, therefore you were hypo. You sound like you were acidotic, you were struggling to produce enough fuel (ketones, via mobilising fat from cells, is how you will be able to do so once completely ketoadapted, plus a small amount conversion into glucose) and you gave yourself some fuel - easily usable fuel in the form of toast - and then you felt better. I doubt you went hypo - it's easy to jump to conclusions when your body won't do what you are wanting it to do.

The book BIWI recommends is solidly scientific, written by 2 impressive American physicians - it will answer your questions far better than I am.
But I would say that, as thumbwitch says - if you aren't able to run that far by the time of your race without carbs, then for that day, you do have other options that don't involve feeling so ill.

thumb I made your 'swede salad' today in lieu of potato salad when we had my ILs round for a BBQ. It was good - thank you for singing it's praises! Sorry things still plod on frustratingly with one thing or another at home - chronic sleep deprivation is awful.

Minty hope you are ok and feel free to complain here, we don't just talk about food!!

lowcarb hope today is a little brighter

I am shattered - terrible night's sleep last night - a bath with a book is my comfort habit these days and no calories or carbs! - but being that I am an addict and it recurs in all circumstances... I can easily be tempted by staying in too long, too late, when I should be doing something else... ALL things in moderation, eh?!

[JaneParker]

Imso - have a look on line at reddit keto - there are loads of very fit young men who work out etc who eat this way and work out ways to make lots of exercise and this way of eating work. (I go up the stairs two at a time but otherwise don't do much exercise myself....)

[ImSoOverIt]

Thanks biwi - I may look into that.

[ImSoOverIt]

It's annoying that you can't get sports drinks without sugar or artificial sweeteners. But guess they would be pretty unpalatable!

[ImSoOverIt]

I was drinking plain tap water whilst actually running, then when I got it drunk some effervescent paracetamol which contains sodium, then when that didn't work I drank some dioralyte, although this does contain glucose. I gave it at least half an hour as I had a bath in that time, then finally decided to eat some bread as I felt so unwell, and felt noticeably better within about 10-15 minutes which fits with being hypoglycaemic unfortunately. I also eat a lot of salt with my food, and today also added some lo-salt to my meal along with normal salt to get a good dose of sodium and potassium in case I needed it.

[BIWI]

Get hold of a copy of "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance" that should help.

[BIWI]

Get hold of a copy of "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance" that should help.

[antimatter]

ImSoOverIt - how much and what kind of water do you drink?
I felt like crying and was in massive pain for couple of says during second week. I worked it out that I was drinking water from filter for most of that time or water which was boiled which would have been depleted of minerals.

[Suzymoo09]

Yes, by sweets I mean those glucose tablets Thumbwitch mentions

[Suzymoo09]

"Imsooverit" I don't know about the marathon training but my DH is lcarbing and is diabetic and is experimenting a little with his medication trying to adapt it - when his blood sugar gets too low he resorts to carbs like you did or has one of those special sweets (you could carry them on your run with you in case you need it). Not very helpful but know you're not alone and perhaps you can allow yourself to eat carbs if you really need them in order to bring your blood sugar up.

[Thumbwitch]

I'mSo - I don't know that I have any useful advice, but I have had a hypo after doing an evening of low-impact, high repetition circuit/weight training whilst on a "diet" - years ago, when I was cox for a ladies' rowing crew, and our coach suggested I drop a few lbs. I used to train with them for solidarity but not put in the same amount of strength work (I didn't need to and muscle weighs too much!) - anyway, I'd clearly used up all my glycogen and sugar stores and had this whopping hypo at work. There's me in the loos, green and grey and clammy, and a woman who was borderline diabetic found me, recognised what it was, and gave me sugar cubes and water. OBVIOUSLY this is not good for lowcarbing, but it worked bloody quick - in less than 10 minutes, I'd say, I felt myself coming back to normal and could go back to work. Soooo - you might consider glucose tablets a little before your run, because you're going to use up all that absorbed sugar pretty immediately, aren't you, it's not going to hang around - it'll break ketosis, but get you through the run.

I'm really not doing well at this, this time around - and to cap it all, DS1 has had a viral gastric bug (that's been doing the rounds in his class) all weekend and Muggins here has been the one looking after him and cleaning up. DH sort of helped by taking DS2 into his bed, so that I didn't have to deal with him AS WELL, but in reality, it just meant that DH could go back to sleep and leave me to be the one who was up until gone 4:30am, which is when DS1 stopped throwing up. Grrr.
Anyway. I do this WOE when I can, and slip too much, so am doubtless not in ketosis but still happy not to be eating so many carbs - will, at some point, manage to get past all my shit and get back on it properly.

I never realised I had an emotional eating problem before - over emotional ishoos used to reduce my appetite, but things have obviously changed over the years!

[ImSoOverIt]

A bowl of clotted cream always finishes a meal off for me nicely!

I hate to not catch up properly yet again but have had people at mine all day and now at my mum 's on phone...

I had an incident yesterday. I went for a 10 mile run yesterday as part of my half marathon training. It was the longest run I have done so far training for this event, I did 7 miles when I first started this woe and was fine. I had been out for short runs 3-4 miles) two days in a row before yesterday.

As soon as I set off yesterday I didn't feel "right", I felt achey and tired and had to keep stopping to walk, which is really unlike me. I assumed if I kept going it would pass but it just didn't. Anyway I completed the 10 miles and went for a little push at the end, but when I got in I nearly collapsed. I had a tight headache, felt really sick but really hungry at the same time with massive tummy rumbles. I felt so weak and tired and couldn't even stand up to have a shower so had a bath and then crawled into bed. I also felt really drowsy and was snapping at dp.

I tried eating some cheese and tomatoes and I drunk some water and dioralyte but I wasn't getting any better, so I gave in an ate some white bread. Treatment of hypoglycaemia is give 15g carbs and wait 15 minutes, so I ate I small slice bread (10g carbs) and waited 10 minutes, then ate another and then I eventually started to feel a bit better. I still felt wobbly all evening, so I confess to eating some of dp's naan, a little bit of poppadum and didn't pick the potatoes out of my veggie korma like I normally would!

I know that true hypoglycaemia is rare in a non insulin dependent diabetic (I am a medic), but I honestly believe I was hypo, seeing as I got better after the carbs. Or I may even have been a little acidotic due to the lactic acid and/or ketones after such a sustained workout with no reserves.

I am just worried now as I am doing this half at the end of June, and I want to be able to do it whilst in this woe! I have had a good google and there are people who manage to distance run on a high fat low carb diet once they are "fat adapted", but I don't know what to do to get there.

I am disappointed that I had to eat carbs last night, but I was honestly so unwell and didn't seem to be able to get better without them. I have been doing strict bc up til now, but I'm not sure whether to switch to light so I have a few more carbs, or whether this will delay me getting fat adapted and cause an even bigger "bonk" when I do run and deplete any glycogen stores I build up.

I have been back on bc today, but of course was 1.5lb up this morning which is disappointing after the effort I put in yesterday! I have also felt like absolute crap today which I'm not sure is still the hangover from my episode yesterday, or having to go through carb flu again after having those carbs yesterday.

Does anyone have any advice for me? I really want to do this half, but also want to succeed on this woe as well, and I can't risk feeling like I did again yesterday - I worry I might end up collapsing on race day! How do I manage if I have an episode like this again? Sorry for the essay

[pingufan]

Well I've put today's food so far into mfp and the macros are 10% carb, 30% protein and 60% fat. So that tells me that I am probably eating too much protein as usually I have ham with my buttery eggs for breakfast (didn't today) and I would normally have something meat based this evening too.

Will just have to have butter for dinner to even things out!

[linesandlines]

Thanks so much for the calorie explanation StuntNun, that had been really confusing me too.

In terms of getting more fat in to your diet, BPC is great, and someone here advised buying the poshest butter you can, and having a slice of that. It feels so so wrong, going against everything you're used to, but it's proper yum. Would a slice of cheese with a slice of butter on top be too much? A bowl of whipped cream, even without berries, feels like a pudding.

Has candida and die-off been discussed on this Bootcamp yet? After starting BC I did a course of probiotics and feel as though that has really helped with sugar cravings and overall wellbeing.

Finally, MrL made some swede (turnip) dolphin pose this week, which was great as a stodge replacement, but tasted really quite sweet to me. Is it supposed to? Our salt & sugar jars are identical, so I have my doubts....

[lowcarbforthewin]

Sorry to hear you've had such a shit weekend. Please do tell us about it if that would help, but don't if you don't want to iykwim. Huge well done for sticking to BC.