kids have just gone back to dad's for half of the week, so sad

[allegrageller]

I was wondering how other lone mums with 50% custody cope with the 'handover'....

my ex h actually has his childcare done by a nanny but I've been effectively bullied into 50:50 and barred by threat of legal action and financial shit from giving up work to look after them (apparently the nanny is better than me and if I sack her and look after the kids myself he will take me to court under hte Children Act...and he is quite insane enough to do that)

ds2 is only 2.11 and cried so much this morning when she took him away....it isn't so bad with ds1 who's 6 and a half, he is that bit more self-sufficient plus I can chat to him on the phone when not with him.

Just feel so sad and miss them so much and also worried about the effect on them

why dont you get some legal advice?? because he's talking rubbish!!

really, do you think? I know he is probably mad to bring the case but what really worried me was the threat of financial bullying too- if he cut me off I'm buggered, don't think housing benefit would cover the rent here etc and what would me and the boys do then...

I am getting legal advice...just in mediation he was so utterly vile this was the best I could do...

I've had depression in the past and still do. Quite severe at times. He will use this to tr to prove I am incapable of full time childcare or so he says.

you can check what HB you would get by going on council website.

presume you not working?

your depression - depends how severe how it manifests - my ex has/had depression but in his case combined with other factors ie he became aggressive, was self harming significantly, etc. when depressed was unable to make contact sessions, could not cook for dscs etc...so really depends how the illness manifests in your case and whether it truly impacts on the care of children.

if you have a good GP/mental health nurse - speak to them about support available to you. speak to MIND etc.

dont let him bully you - get the correct advice.

The man is a bully. Get legal advice pronto. Depression is in no way proof that you cannot sustain proper childcare. If it goes to court a judge will always maintain what is best for the children. Financially, he is legally bound to provide for his children, through the CSA if necessary.

god no, I may have been verbally aggressive in the past to my ex h (i.e. we argued a lot, so he certainly sees me as aggressive) and I would say perhaps when depressed I lose my temper a bit too much with the boys but I am having counselling etc to deal with the issues. I frankly doubt that I'm any worse than any stressed mum at my worst.

I took the step of asking my psychiatrist if SHE would classify me as a fit parent and she said yes of course and that in fact I don't need day to day support . But I do know that he will lie, exaggerate and twist my behaviour as much as he can to get his way. That in itself is very stressful and depressing

Thanks www. I think the depression is making it hard for me to contemplate a fight.

I am taking a year off work to try to sort out these horrible issues.

Thanks everyone.

what did the mediator say? didnt s/he put a stop to him?

also - i think you should just let him take you to court. you have enough evidence psychiatrist etc to confirm you fine as mum.

presume he apyon gfor nanny on "his " days?

i dont see an issue with him paying for childcare on his days - as presumably at some point you will need child care when you go back to work?

or do you want to propose you do the child care while he at work then hand them to him?

"paying for the nanny" sorri

court isnt so bad in these situations. they will get to the bottom of the issues. why do you think the courts will take his word for it anyway? they work with facts and evidence,they are very used to bitter ex's and he will end up looking bloody stupid....so let him

you have set a precedent here though,by allowing this 50;50 when you can see its not in childrens best interests.

you are in no way obliged to hand the kids over to the nanny.....not without a court order.

what would you see as being the best contact arrangement? what are you happy with?(bearing in mind the childrens act is the childs rights to relationship with both parents) what is best for the children?

I actually don't think it should be 50:50 as i am not working and he is so don't see how it helps them to be handed over at 7pm or whatever time he comes home (later on Fridays).

yes, I have indeed set a precedent, I had a total nervous breakdown around the time we split up and was trying to please him to see if we could get back together...

I suppose now the best I can hope for is to be able to look after them then hand them back to him in the evenings when he has residence. Stupid, but I'll do it if I have to. However, he does not want to allow me even that.

yep cestlavie he pays for nanny and indeed everything as I am a mere p/t worker and he is very wealthy- another reason why I am scared of a legal battle. I'm just scared and exhausted full stop tbh...and worried that judges and CAFCASS etc will listen to his crap and exaggerations about me and be prejudiced against a woman with a 'mental illness' etc.

oh and also he is trying to use the 'best interests principle' in the children's act to prove they are better off with the nanny as she is their 'established full time carer' and for me to 'take over' would stress the children out as they've experienced too much upheaval with the divorce etc?!!

never marry (or divorce) a lawyer...:S

Hi allegra, used you post under a different name? You sound familiar!

I'd be very surprised if a judge would agree that a nanny is better than a loving mother unless you've been beating them up or something.

I echo the advice not to be scared of court in this situation. Financial bullying would be tough in the short term but would do him nothing but harm in a court setting.

You sound very beaten down but think of your dcs and don't give up the fight!

yep Nickname it's me (I remember you well and thanks for all your previous support- stopped posting for a while as 2 people recognised me in RL including a mutual friend of h's!!)

i got H to agree at mediation not to prevent me from ever leaving South London but at a price. I was so astonished at his loony threats to take me to court repeatedly that I backed down a bit (also have been re-diagnosed with chronic fatigue as well as the depression and need a year off work anyway- also have book to write argh!!)

I could handle the 50:50 I think, just about, but I don't like his nanny at all and neither do the kids. Let alone the fact that he claims she is a better carer than me she just isn't great full stop. I am going to have to change this aren't I...he is immune to reason, and it WILL mean going to court and possibly being cut off financially as well

The mediator did not correct him in what he was saying. I suppose she couldnt' as it wasnt' her job. But she did say he was very unlikely to succeed in preventing me from taking care of the children f/t or more of the week as the injunction he wanted to take out against me would only be made a priority if the children were in danger of violence etc (?!) and is usually used against violent (male) abusers etc. She said that even if he did convince a judge of my 'dangerousness' he wouldn't even get a hearing for about a year probably. i was still scared though and just wanted a break from it all for a bit.

I will come back fighting just needed to regroup myself...

I just wanted to tell you my experience in a similar situation. When iIseparated from my ex my children were 2, 5, 7 and 10yrs and i agreed to 50/50 in a similar situation to you.

My ex is very aggressive, I was worn down and initially I thought, as he told me, it would be best for the children. I should say that I had been the stay-at-home primary carer for years and he had worked away from home for a large proportion of the year.

After three months it became clear that the children were suffering greatly (too much to go into here) and if I tried to discuss their distress I just got a whole load of bullying behaviour from him.

To cut a long story short I obtained legal advice and then told the children that they would be with me most of the time. I also told my ex (and I had the back-up of school and an ed psychologist who had seen their behaviour deteriorate).
Well, I had every threat going from court to social services but I stuck to it in the best interests of the children. They settled down almost immediately and they go to him every other weekend from fri to monday evening and every alternate mon to 7pm for supper. He knew that if he tried to keep them longer that I would be the one going to court for an emergency order.

He did take me to court a few months later but got nowhere as he was really just playing games and wanted control - he didn't ask for the 50/50 to be reinstated (it wasn't long enough anyway to set a status quo) but just wanted a contact order which he didn't get because he didn't need it - he had contact which was perfectly reasonable (we thrashed out holidays in mediation).

My advice to you would be to act quickly and get legal advice - also make sure that you are claiming all tax credits etc. My ex has to pay through the CSA and he is a high earner so he has to pay towards his childrens upkeep.Financially it was tight for a while but bearable with a bit of budgeting.

I do feel for you because I felt absolutely overwhelmed by his intimidation but when it came down to it I couldn't let the children go on suffering.

The good news is that ten years on and my eldest is about to finish uni, my next will go this year, and I have been working in a school for the last six years - we're not well off but we manage. It seems a long and distant nightmare but we came through.The children have never been anything but pleased that the 50/50 stopped and even as they got older and could have more freedom have not chosen to spend more time at their dads (he is pretty difficult to them as well although they do love him).

The other piece of advice I would have is not to communicate face to face - my ex would twist things so that I didn't know whether I was coming or going and it was exhausting. I only communicate by email or letter - and only in a business non-emotive way. When my ex rang and screamed at me down the phone I set boundaries by putting the phone down until he could be civil - and ultimately reported him to the police for harrassment. All of his 'stuff' was usually in private and his intimidation worked on me thinking he was right all of the time (he's a university professor). Once I distanced myself from his manipuation I was able to think clearly again.

I'm sorry that this is so long but I really hope that it helps you - much luck and good wishes and hope that you feel strong enough to change things for the better.

Oh yes and one more thing - the depression stuff is just a red herring to bully you with - by the time I'd separated from my ex I weighed 6 stone, was on beta blockers for anxiety and couldn't function very well. Surprisingly once I was away from him I rapidly recovered and I also had my gp's backing that I was a good and competent parent. Don't let yourself be bullied - and he can't stop you from moving. He could try with a prohibited steps order but unless you're moving abroad to stop him seeing the children he's very unlikely to succeed so you should feel secure there.

Once again good luck

Just thought I add my experience as I have recently got divorced he is NOT entitled to that much custody and Believe me if it went to court he get access every other weekend and that would probably be it until your children are older - Havent read your the whole post sorry left glasses at work and will give myself a headache, but I feel your pain my dd is with my exh tonight and I hate it - but I do know that I consulted 4 family Lawyers and they all said that any judge would look at what is best for the dc and at the ages your dc are that would be every other weekend and only more if YOU wanted it! he is bullying you.. My eh got every other weekend and I allowed him an overnight on a wednesday, which he would not of got if he had taken me to court - I just wanted my life back of constant rows! but that is all he is getting until dd is older (she is 4)
Big hugs!

if you didnt hand them over to the nanny what do you think he would do??

Hang on, if the care is 50/50, what is the comment 'legally bound to provide for his children' about? As I understand it, he pays for the children all of the time when they are with him - and something (everything?) when they are with OP? So above and beyond his obligation, I'd have said.

Children around the age of 2 or 3 often cry at handovers - they pick up on the tension and are confused by the mixed messages. My DSS used to do it at that age - by the time the car went round the corner he was as happy as a sandboy and would pull the same stunt for the return;it's really not an indicator of deep psychological damage.

I feel quite depressed by this thread, TBH - children ARE entitled to equal time with both parents (unless there are risks of abuse etc) and the fact that one parent works and pays for childcare does not make them any less worthy of time with the children (I work FT) and without any disrespect to the OP, if my ex had had a breakdown and had mental health issues I would not want to hand over my kids and become a weekend parent. In fact I wouldn't want to do that in any scenario.

And fianlly, in response to the previous question - please bear in mind that in this situation the Ex has just as much right not to hand the kids back as the OP has to not hand them over, but I don't think either of those options would be great for the kids.

Tanga, I see where you're coming from, but there is a back-story that indicates that allegra's ex is more keen to spite her than enjoy time with his dcs. And I work ft myself and my DD spends some of "my" time at nursery so I'm really not saying that a SAHP deserves more. You're assuming that both parents are prioritizing the dcs, and I think that's a great thing, but unfortunately it's not always the case.

allegra, I've been wondering how you've been getting on, and I'm sorry that it's proving such a long battle. I get the impression that your ex is really keen to scare you with the prospect of court precisely because he realizes that he wouldn't be able to steamroller you in court the way he has done out of it.

kate, your story is pretty inspiring! I wonder what my own situation will look like in ten years time.

Oh, and allegra, good luck with the book! It's good to have something else to concentrate on at times.

Tanga......i specifically said about handover to the NANNY,who op says they all DONT LIKE??

Tanga- he is home at 7pm OR LATER every night.

on Fridays I go round there to see them after work at about 5pm and send the nanny home. He knows I am there so he doesn't bother coming home until about 9pm even though apparently I am an unfit mother.

He has Saturdays with them but hands them over to me at about 5pm so he never actually has a full day with them. he is keeping them away from me in favour of their nanny. He is not 'spending equal time with them'.

the crying at handover I would take as evidence that he does not in fact prefer his nanny to me. He never cries at handover to his dad and I have not argued that my ex is a bad parent or that they dont' enjoy spending time with him. But I am available and wanting to be with them and he has specifically said that I am 'not good enough' to do so and she is 'better'.

If you would have problems with your partner spending time with their children after they had had a breakdown and depression, I think you are prejudiced, frankly. One in 6 people will go through this in their lives particularly around divorce etc. Does this make them unfit parents and mean that their children should be handed over to nannies???

by 'he in the 'crying' sentence I mean my 2 year old ds2.

btw Tanga, both my parents suffered from depression and had breakdowns in their lives but I would have been devastated to be kept from them for that reason. Particularly to be handed over to someone who didn't love them as much as they did.

Also I imagine if I grew up and found out that I had been left with a nanny because one parent judged the other one to be an 'unfit' parent without any evidence (in fact all the evidence is that I AM an entirely fit parent, as I have outlined), I would be quite sickened. I do worry for my boys tbh. they both repeatedly tell me how much they don't like their nanny. if their dad was indeed around I would not mind nearly so much but he isn't.

I do get very saddened at the amount of fear and prejudice there is against people who suffer depression in this country. Stigma and shame are used against people who are already suffering. I suffered a breakdown because I was getting divorced and my ex H launched a divorce petition against me for adultery (which I hadn't committed as we were already separated) claiming full custody of the children. i was also working in a different part of the country and under a huge amount of pressure. When people's lives fall apart they get sad. There has been maybe 1 or 2 days in my life when I've been unable to look after my kids. Same as someone with a brief physical illness, but you wouldn't recommend taking THEIR kids away, would you?

the whole attitude is just so saddening. Your attitude is just like my H's (although as I've said he now seems to have now problem at all staying out getting pissed on Fridays while texting me every half hour that he's 'just leaving now'....it's just like being married again sometimes )

clealry he ahppy for you to be with them when it suit him.

the nanny doesnt love them as much as me is a red herring to be honest. of course parental love is different. but let's leave the professional carer out of it for now.

in a true 50/50 -= they go to him, he organises whatever appropriate childcare while h e works , then they go back to you.and you organise the day/childcare as needed for your work or going out arrangements...

but it seems very fluid...do i read correct that you go to HIS place on fridays and relieve the nanny then wait for him?

i think that has to stop.

you need to set clear boundaries - if you in his place or he is in yours then it wont work when there is tension between you both.

wouldnt it be better that you do all YOUR time with your children at YOUR place? presume you live close enough - so nanny could drop at off at yours. if he not back til 9 pm then they should sleep at yours and he picks them up saturday mornings?

maybe mediation to thrash out a more sensible sharing....

i dont think people here are dissing you for being depressed - it's been stated - only when abuse of kids or neglect... his arguemtns about you being unfit you knwo are jsut him ranting adn if he wants to prove it in court let him.... reality is he happy for you to baby sit the kids for him to go out so his argument is flawed from the start...

but if both of you capable of looking after chldren then you could both argue for 50/50. I am not convinced it works for children but is wrong to say categorically he should only get alternate weekends if there are no factors such as neglect etc.

i think by bringing it to court arena and involving cafcass you might get a better more thought out arrangement?

he is throwing in stupid sutff like nanny is better than you etc, clearly is bullying... let him take you to court...

maybe think of a better arrangement and schedule for handovers etc and certainly if you having the kids friday pm til he finished work/going out - then have the nanny bring them to your place and have them stay at yours - then he picks them up saturday morning at 0900. seems to be more sensible arrangement - maybe work on that one first?

what stops you taking the children from nanny and taking them to your place?

why are you going there and staying there then presumably leaving them sleeping there when he gets back from night out? why not take them to your palce and tell him to pick them up in the morning?

i dont think you should be babysitting them at his place (or vice versa) . allows him to control you... if he wants fridays out then have them at yours - or alternate fridays he comes back to relieve the nanny on time and you get friday night out. .

I think it's that I miss the kids so much by Friday I just desperately want to see them. And I hate the idea of sitting at home while they are with her until 7pm...

why is the nanny thing a red herring if he's coming home only just in time for their bath while I sit at home missing them? He's not actually looking after them. That's my point entirely.

He would never agree to let me have them on Fridays and drop them off- his idea of 50:50 is rigid. For those days they must be in HIS house. However, using his 'unfit' ex as an unpaid babysitter seems to be fine.

I would do 50:50 if he were not forcing me to accept a nanny 4 days a week. i could write my book on the other days. But his argument is that i cannot change the childcare arrangements AT ALL as that is not in the children's best interests....