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Original poster

can my friend's ex husband legally contest her decision to move 300 miles away to be near her family?

299 replies

troubledfriend · 23/07/2008 23:55

Very dear friend , 2 primary school kids separated from husband 2 y ago.

In separation agreement kids live with her. Their dad is half an hour away and sees thm loads. They are reasonably cordial and flexible about it all.

he did initially want residency but she would not let him and .

She is v unhappy and wants to move 300 miles away to be near her family.She is currently in Scotland and wants to move to England

She is dreading telling him.

Could the courts stop her?

Would he have any chance of getting residency if he pursued it through the courts?

OP posts:
silverfrog · 27/07/2008 17:55

I agree with AbbeyA when she said that fathers should not be made to be visitors in their children's lives.

Dh was effectively made a visitor in his children's lives when he split with his ex.

I do not understand how anyone could do this. If the mother in the OP is finding things hard now, with a willing and involved father sharing the upbringing, then how hard will she find it when he is not there?

To assume that grandparents will take on what sounds like considerable hands-on time is risky - as others have pointed out, they have their own lives to lead.

At the ages the children are, I doubt they will thank their mother for taking them away from their father (and the rest of their lives).

AbbeyA · 27/07/2008 17:59

It would be nice if they could sort it out amicably but since she has decided to move before telling her XH and the children I don't think there is much hope. She could at least have brought up the subject with her XH first.

expatinscotland · 27/07/2008 18:03

'To assume that grandparents will take on what sounds like considerable hands-on time is risky - as others have pointed out, they have their own lives to lead.'

And they are not the children's parent. They have one who is alive and willing to play an active role in the parenting.

silverfrog · 27/07/2008 18:06

Quite, expat.

To deny a father the right to be involved with his children for no other reason than because the mother wants to, is the worst thing possible, imo

expatinscotland · 27/07/2008 18:10

I just can't helping thinking that this thread would be totally different if it were the father as resident parent and he were posting about moving the kids 300 miles from their mother.

silverfrog · 27/07/2008 18:13

Oh, it would definitely be different.

Sadly, dh has found out over the years that whatever a mother wants, a mother gets. And if what the mother wants is to remove her ex form the children's lives, then the courts are virtually powerless to stop it happening.

AbbeyA · 27/07/2008 18:15

It gives the father huge problems. He has to spend hours travelling, has nowhere to stay when he gets there and no home to take them to and so he will have to take them out (not easy on a wet day in February)and buy all meals.He can't be called by the school to pick them up if ill, get to know their friends, take them to clubs etc-she is stopping all normal parental contact. All because she wants to be near her parents! She is the adult-I think her DCs have more need to be near both their parents.

AbbeyA · 27/07/2008 18:18

She would fight every inch of the way if her XH wanted to take them 300 miles away and yet he is supposed to understand that she is emotionally vulnerable.

expatinscotland · 27/07/2008 18:28

Well, courts here in Scotland are different.

My SIL's ex recently won residence on the grounds that it was in their son's best interest to remain with him. They are also 8 and 10.

nooka · 27/07/2008 18:37

I think this is a highly risky thing to do. My children are almost eight and nine, and we have just moved (across the Atlantic in our case). We have done it together (and that was part of the reason why we did it, as we were previously separated for two years). The children have found it very difficult, and we have had to cuddle them when they were in floods of tears about leaving, and about wanting to go home on many occasions. We spent month preparing them for it, had goodbyes with their friends, set up e-mail accounts and got addresses etc. If they had the option to go home I think they would go the next day. Obviously we hope that with time and support they will make friends and start enjoying themselves here, and if they don't we will go back home.

In this case it sounds as if the mum in question might be planning a flit, as she hasn't told her ex about her plans, and therefore she cannot have told her children. So I would worry whether the children will get to say goodbye to friends, look at new schools, get used to the idea etc.

I think unless there are things about where her parent live that give the children a better quality of life (obvious to them) then she will have two very unhappy resentful children, who may well want to return to Scotland and live with their dad. Oh, and if I were him, I would fight tooth and nail to make that happen. With this sort of distance you are reducing their relationship to a chat on the phone, plus occasional visits because the cost and disruption regularly traveling 300 miles is huge (unless either party is wealthy, which seems unlikely).

Judy1234 · 27/07/2008 18:50

I think in practice whatever the law says mothers usually are allowed to move the children but would be delighted if I were wrong.

mistressmiggins · 27/07/2008 19:16

I havent read the entire thread but can I just put the other side?

My exH left me with DD (17mths) and DD (3.5)
He moved 3 hours away from us so that he lived near work. I have not complained - what would be the point?

I have not moved - we are still in the family home. His choice - he has to drive up to pick the kids up to take them to his house. Tough - he moved - his loss.

I stayed because this is my family home, my parents & brother live in same town & we have friends. My ex chose work over his kids (he only moved nearer to work so he could have a lie in every day)

Should I have stopped him?
I wouldnt have been able to.
If OP's friend needs to move to have family support, why shouldnt she?

AbbeyA · 27/07/2008 19:28

Your case is entirely different! It was your XH choice. In this case the XP is a loving, hands on father who has shared the parenting.He didn't continue to go for residency (as he initially wanted), he allowed the mother because she was local. If the XH were to move away it would be his choice and loss, however it is the mother, who isn't proposing to go on her own but assumes she can take the DCs.
You may think that your XH has made the wrong choice but he has left you with the DCs-if he had moved 3 hours away with them then I expect you would have stopped him!

AbbeyA · 27/07/2008 19:29

I don't think there would be any objection to the mother moving back to her parents without the DCs.

LongLiveGreenElizabeth · 27/07/2008 20:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

expatinscotland · 27/07/2008 20:50

LLE, the OP has stated several times that this is a good father, not an abusive or mean one.

LongLiveGreenElizabeth · 27/07/2008 20:58

Well, I guess if my X had been a good man and had said, "right, we're splitting up but I don't want to see you on the breadline, miserable, unhappy, lonely, let's work something out...... Let's plan how we can co-parent amicably without either of us being utterly miserable", then I would never have left the country I'd lived in for 15 yrs.

But I guess I just feel too accutely what it's like to be a single mother, and as it turns out, it's a bloody Godsend to be near my parents and have their support. The OP's friend's x does have a case, he could challenge her, but obviously enough, if the mother is the one caring for the children, then she is the one with a greater need of a support network.

lostdad · 27/07/2008 21:09

My ex is doing this to me. She is moving my son over 300 miles away and has refused to tell me where he will be living and with who - she's moving in with her boyfriend. There is no residency issue.

I'm heartbroken and as a result my son will see even less of me than he has done since she walked out and divorced me without warning and without saying a word to me. Even now, she sends her mother for handovers and intends to do the same thing when she has moved.

My son is too young to know what's going on at the moment. But he will, soon. I am devastated that he will soon realise the nasty situation and despite my constant requests for mediation and attempts to have some kind of post-divorce relationship with my ex, he will be stuck in the middle.

AbbeyA · 27/07/2008 21:13

In your case you did the right thing LLGE, but in this case the children are very happy with both parents and he is a good father.

paolosgirl · 27/07/2008 21:15

LongLive, this is you talking about your experiences and transferring that to the OP. I'm sorry that you married the wrong man for you, and I'm sorry for your children - but what you're describing is so far removed from the OP that we might as well be talking about a different thread. Yes, the OP's friend needs a support network, but it sounds as if she's already got one in the form of friends (one of whome is concerned enough about her to post on MN) and an ex-h who is very involved in the kids' lives and whom she is on amicable terms with.

She may need a support network - but she's an adult, and it's up to her to build one. Her kids also need their dad - and he needs them.

AbbeyA · 27/07/2008 21:16

So sorry lostdad-there seem to be so many stories like yours.

paolosgirl · 27/07/2008 21:16

whom

LongLiveGreenElizabeth · 27/07/2008 21:19

You do have redress fgs. Lol at the idea that she divorced you for 'no reason'. Maybe that's why she can't deal with you. Maybe you're in denial about a lot of things. But however, your marriage breakdown is not the issue.

If you were married then you were joint guardians, and if she is removing the child from his habitual domicile then that violates the terms of The Hague Convention.

Did you not hear about Ms X and Mr G? AN English mother who when her relationship with an Irish father broke down returned to live with her family. She was ordered to take them back to Ireland. The judge simply "applied the Hague Convention" as they always do now I am told.

IF you are prepared to spend the money, get a solicitor.

LongLiveGreenElizabeth · 27/07/2008 21:23

Paolo's girl, it was my experience yes, but as one of the few people who can truly empathise with the OP's friend, I'm at least as entitled to post as anybody else.

The fact is that there is no support network that could rival that of a close family. There really isn't. Your great friends love you, and they're fond of their children, but they have their own lives, responsibilities, duties, they don't love your children the way grandparents do.

paolosgirl · 27/07/2008 21:24

Wow, you've a lot of bitterness there that still needs dealt with, Longlive.