Why are men so bitter about paying maintenance?

[bidoofisgod]

Just that really. Why do they get so resentful about paying for their kids and then expect us to be so grateful for getting their measly money whilst they complain about it?
I get £25 a month. And it's thrown in my face every time we speak, and then when I offer to help with childcare over half term as he has to work on days he has the kids (im a TA so will be off anyway) he says no because he doesn't want me using it to demand more money from him, and would rather pay someone else for childcare. How does that make any sense? All the while he's out living his life whilst I'm left with the kids and the dog which he wanted but now "can't have" and I have to shoulder the financial burden off.
All the same time whilst saying he doesn't want to divorce and wants us to work it out. Really selling yourself here and making yourself so attractive. Ffs

Sorry, rant over

In the generation above me, English men were taught from childhood to expect that they would need to financially support their families. Men knew that kids = expense and that it was a duty to provide.

Then in my generation (teens in the 90s) we were taught that men and women are equal (obvs true) and should be treated exactly the same (obvs stupid) and that both parents should get equal time with the kids etc and that thus men don’t provide for the family anymore. What all my male classmates heard was “It is old-fashioned for the man to financially support his family.”

And so now we have a generation of fathers who think that it’s unfair for them to have to provide in any way. And so we see woment taking out loans so they can afford to have some maternity leave to physically recover and breastfeed, while their ‘liberated’ male partners spend all their money on hobbies and shrug off any suggestion of supporting their child.

What a cock up. Happily I married an old-fashioned man raised in a different culture where men still have a sense of responsibility.

So you don't pay maintenance for you kids? Paying for your children isn't financial abuse, it's taking responsibility. I'm sure you would expect maintenance if the custody had fell in your favour. If you were male you'd be called a deadbeat dad.

Both child support and maternity leave pay are seen as things for which the parents should be responsible, rather than the state.

@Aquariumcorals Of course I do; you've missed the point.
He only wanted custody to continue his abuse! Financial and other.

Sadly that is so true. My first husband (thankfully we never had children) had got it all mapped out in his head, I would take very short maternity leave (to ensure that I could always pay my 50% of all bills, despite earning half what he did) and then I would pay for nursery when I returned to work full time. If I wanted to avoid nursery costs, I could leave the baby with his mother (who had dementia). He really thought he could have a baby for free!

@Shadowssang Do you mean "old fashioned" insofar as the expectation is the man is the sole provider whilst the woman stays at home?
That's not equality.

@LorlieS I don't accept that paying maintenance is financial abuse.

In the generation above me, English men were taught from childhood to expect that they would need to financially support their families. Men knew that kids = expense and that it was a duty to provide.

Having looked at lots of poor law records and parish relief applications whilst doing genealogy over the years I'm very firmly of the belief that men have always shirked their financial responsibilities to their families whenever they could.

I think the fact we don't all live and work in the same place as our families now also has a big part in why it's more socially acceptable to not pay for your kids. If your boss knows your ex, your kids, your Mum, your Dad, and employs half your family and half your exes family then you're less likely to want them to think badly of you. Same if you know when you go to work or the pub you're going to bump into your exes parents, your and their neighbours, people you went to school with etc - you're not going to want them to know that you're a waster that's abandoned your kids.

The whole cms needs a complete overhaul beacuse their are far too many men avoiding what they should pay and its not the mum that suffers its the children.

I pay 300 a month to my ex for my teen ds I earn 36k a year and we were able to do this by mutual agreement rather than going through cms so I'm not sure if I would be paying more under cms.

She has another 3 children who sadly none of the dads have ever paid a single penny and its only the children who suffer.

Men do know that having unprotected sex can lead to children and have a legal duty and in my opinion moral duty to support the child its sad that some to choose it as a way of punishment rather than supporting their children

My ex refused to pay a bean (well,actually he did pay £1 and thinks that's enough in the last 26 years) because 'that thick slag will only spend it on herself'

He's that nasty,he refused to cough up just in case I did spend a penny on myself,while forgetting that kids do cost money to feed and clothe (while buying himself posh clothes,cars and holidays abroad)

His family stood behind him,nodding their heads about how greedy I was for taking his money (knowing full well he didn't pay)

His girlfriend feels the same (and is desperate for his child-its only a matter of time)

He also had the gall to chase me down the street,howling that I'd spent all his (none) csa money on my hair,clothes and nails-what a bitch that made me look to passers-by (I hadn't had my hair cut in 5 years,my clothes where from the charity shop and I've never had my nails done)

He used to laugh at the csa when they got in touch and they where useless

It's all about control with some men

The only change needed for CMS is the political will, and the staffing/funding, to use the powers they have.

They actually have plenty of powers. There is just zero political will for them to use them so to get anything done with them you have to push and fight repeatedly (and even then it's not guaranteed).

My ex had to pay £7 a week for 2 children but I told him not to pay. I would rather he put the money towards when he had them go to his house. Plus I didn't need it so I didn't feel right taking it off him as he doesn't have a lot of money.

@Aquariumcorals It's one of the reasons he applied for majority custody though.
He also prevents me from getting CB for one son, despite having to pay it back as he earns in excess of £100k.
Suppose you think that's reasonable too?

@LorlieS No claiming to pay it back is ridiculous. My point is whatever the motives were, I don't think paying for your kids can be classed as financial abuse. In cases where a parent isn't paying that is financial abuse, toward the resident parent.

@Aquariumcorals I think it's also important we recognise that not every parent who doesn't see their kids much is doing so out of choice.
I would give absolutely anything to not be a "just EOW" mum. Literally anything. But that's what the courts decided.
This isn't of course to say anybody should shirk financial responsibility, but I do feel for parents (in reality mostly dads) who are restricted in their access for no valid reason.
A good dad is just as important as a good mum.

I agree that not all parents who don't see their children, are actively choosing to not see their children. The possibilities could be endless. It could be due to ill health, distance, work and so forth. However, I think this post is aimed at parents who choose not to contribute, but could. Totally agree that both parents are equally important.
I can only speak from my experience, I have been a step mum to my 2 SS for 10 years since they were little boys. I also have a son of my own who they love. I don't see them as stepchildren in a way because they have been with us from so little. But their mother has never paid maintenance and has never contributed despite being remarried and having another kid of her own. How old are your DC?

I very much agree with all this.

These men don't mind spending money when they are the ones controlling what it gets spent on.

@Aquariumcorals They're now 14 and 16. Left my ex when they were just 3 and 6. I guess I shouldn't have because he never hit me, but I wasn't strong enough to put up with the emotional/financial/psychological abuse. I will carry this guilt to my grave.
I know that ultimately makes me a rubbish mum as I suppose I put my needs before that of my sons, but I naively thought the courts would help me.

We even have the current CMS system we do because governments (successive ones) couldn’t even be arsed to actually chase NRPs for payment.

This is true and it's one thing the current government has done which I actually agree with.

When claims went to the previous CSA, if you didn't phone them up every single week literally NOTHING got done. The people that you had to speak to on the phone often sounded like they could barely read or write.

I had to make an official complaint to make them enforce one measly DEO payment which happened eventually. And he promptly left the country.

The same guys who throw their babies on the ground, throw acid (or whatever) on them, jump off balconies with them, it's hard to imagine the hatred these men have for women. But especially for women who are no longer interested in them.
If you hurt the children you hurt the mother.

It's actually so terrifying

(And yes of course I know not all men and yes of course I'm sure there's a Netflix real crime about the 1 woman who has done this too...so no need to come back at me)

Oh I know the lazy bastards who want to go for a walk so they don't have to make even a tiny bit of effort.

I wouldn't date someone who had children and didn't pay for them but I guess some women must do. How could I accept someone spending money with me knowing they weren't paying for their children?

This is probably why I'm single as my list of things I won't accept means it's easier just to not date
I've ditched someone because I was always driving as he couldn't contemplate not having a drink. Another guy I didn't go back because he was rude to a waitress on the third date

They see a child as the woman's and they are doing her a favour by contributing anything even the bare minimum
I think this can be at the root of it. Also only being prepared to pay for the child if they are getting a benefit in return, such as wife work provided by the partner. The child becomes irrelevant when the relationship no longer exists to benefit the man.

I think we can agree that far more women want children than men do.
Roughly 80% of women have had at least one child by the time they reach 45. Although I think this distorts the real figures as lots of women now have a child aged 45+, but we’ll go with 80% for ease.
Lets say only 40% of men want a child. I really don’t think it’s higher than that.
If it was then far more men would be parenting their children and financially and emotionally supporting them.
Of these 40% this includes all those who will not pull their weight. The ones who insist on going to the pub every Friday, getting drunk and staying in bed Saturday morning leaving the mother to parent the children alone. It also includes the ones who continue to do their hobby as if they are child free. Example; going cycling every Saturday for hours. Training 3 times a week instead of spending time with their children.
Lets say that leaves 20%.
20% if men who will make great fathers and want to be fathers.
This also includes the men who women don’t want to be with. They don’t find them attractive and cannot imagine spending the rest of their life with them.
That’s the choice.
It would make more sense to use donor sperm and go it alone. Yet society still looks down on single mothers, childfree women, single women, women who have fb. Etc etc.
It’s a depressing reality for women who want to be in a committed relationship and have children.
It’s also hard for a man to admit that he never wanted his children in the first place. There isn’t any excuse is there in this day and age for it? So easier to just blame the ex. Say she prevents him from seeing them blah blah blah.

Having standards is a sensible thing to do to avoid being unhappy in the future.