10 years of terrible bedtimes I am broken

[shakeitoffshakeacocktail]

I cannot cope anymore
In 6 hours my alarm is going to go off and I am going to spray her with cold water to wake her up, take her to breakfast club and tell her teacher I am at breaking point

She can go and live with her dad for a while I am one person who has been mentally tortured from trying to help this child sleep for 10 years

She was exhausted today, she told me all evening she was tired, we did all the evening routine and she would not fall asleep. Usually I would sit next to her on the floor and tickle her back but I am recovering from a leg operation.

I fell asleep before her in my room, she had her tv on a sleep timer to go off at 11pm

At 12.15 she woke me up to tell me she couldn't sleep. She hasn't been trying to, even though she was exhausted

Sending sympathy. I would honestly co sleep for a while, as in a few months, to completely break the negative sleep habits. She can fit to your routine, bed at 10-11 pm with no tv but you next to her to help fall asleep and once this is a habit slowly bring bedtime forward. It might take months but surely it's better than the stress associated with the current situation?

Before people blame the tv, it will be going tonight but you name it I've done it

White noise
Projectors
Audio books
Paper books
Singing to her when she was younger
Stroking her back
Cuddling her
Leaving her
Tv on

Everything works for a week or two then it doesn't anymore

She fights the sleep
we both know she does

She loves her morning sleep, well she's not getting that until we sort out bedtimes

I dread it, she can be so aggressive and angry she distracts and manipulates me she makes me talk when I say I'm not talking

For 10 years I have said

Get cosy
Don't move
Don't talk
Shut your eyes
Stay under the covers

She actually falls asleep if she does these 5 things we both know it BUT she is fighting the sleep

She's done it her whole life, she would be exhausted and screaming as a toddler and would fight it

I have no energy left for it

Remove the tv from her bedroom. It is too stimulating. Replace it with a radio that plays music. Only ears are needed while eyes can close.

Does she do any sports OP?

My DC fights sleep but sleeps very well after swimming as the teacher works them hard doing lane swimming.

Would you DC sleep with you in your bed? If she woke up and knew you were beside her (sleeping) would she feel reassured?

In my case I fly off the handle with DC wakes me when there isn't anything wrong. Very often DC is too scared to wake me as I don't have patience for being woken up when there is no need.

That's what happened tonight, she screamed that she couldn't sleep. I had offered my bed several times she had refused. She eventually came in cuddled me and fell straight asleep in seconds

She co slept a lot over the years but I was quite pleased that since we went back to school in Jan it hasn't happened at all, over the Xmas hols it was nearly every night and very late 1am ish but getting up late, about 9am

She can survive on 7 hours sleep but if allowed to sleep in would have 10hours but only from morning sleep

I'd like her to have 8/9 hours sleep 10-7 ish

We have only had the tv in her room for about 1 year, she didn't have it at all for sleeping but was sleeping shit anyway with out it.
We tried it with the tv and it worked for a while

I swear every routine works for 2-3 months then needs changing again

Like she's realised it's working and now it's boring or something? Or easier to fight the sleep

Yes lots of clubs and tonight she was in a good mood, we talked about an early bedtime and the fact that she was tired

I think her body clock is fucked

8-9 hours sleep is too short in my opinion for a ten year old. She should have a minimum of 9/10 hours. She is very likely overtired.

Sleep begets sleep. Have you tried going to bed at 8ish, reading a story and having lights out by 8.30pm and getting up at 7am? Sticking very firmly to a routine. It will be awful for the first while but should get easier. If it means putting her to sleep in your bed, then do that?

She will grow out of this in another couple of years anyway?

Another option is Melatonin from her GP?

This is harmless and for your own sake and sanity, its worth trying it?

I hope she grows out of it, I have told myself every year that she will grow out of it.

Teenagers love their sleep but I'm starting to worry it'll just be the morning sleep she'll love and will stay up late

I am going to force her to get up early as that is affecting the nighttime routine too I think.

I try to get her up at 7.30 and I'm soft hearted and when she rolls over I let her have more sleep until it's 8 am and I really need her up

It's affecting her school and I spoke to her teacher today about it

I can try waking up early and early bedtimes but it actually scares me how hard it's going to be and how hateful she will be.
It's like choosing to put yourself through a 3 hours fight and battle of wills to make her do a 'good' bedtime
She will fight it and manipulate and wreck her room it exhausts me just thinking about it

Yes I might try this

My friend thinks she might have undiagnosed ADHD but I try to put as few medicines in our bodies as possible but at this point it may be needed

She knows she's tired she just won't lie down quietly in a dark room

I couldn't sleep after she woke me up as I was that upset and angry

It's the bedtimes that have broken me before over the years

She also threatened to jump out of a window and threatened to stab me with pure hatred in her voice a few years ago and I went to the doctors and a councelling. Session with her but it wasn't a good fit and she'd calmed down

I believe some of that was from fear of smacking which I stopped doing as it wasn't working for us at all

Typing all this has helped,
I'm off to sleep now
Thanks all

She will fight it and manipulate and wreck her room it exhausts me just thinking about it

Would putting her into your room mean this wouldn’t happen?

Could you take your cup of tea into your bedroom and read/browse the Internet? When she tries to whinge don’t respond other than a nod until she falls asleep?
(I did sleep training with my bad sleeper when she was a baby - it was awful as DC was obviously too young to realise why I wasn’t responding - but the practical ideas involved in sleep training make sense. A very rigid routine. Early bedtimes. No talking. Get up at the same time every morning.

I know this means you don’t have an evening to do what you need to do but arguing for three hours means you don’t get this time anyway?!

I would co sleep until this is sorted, so you can survive!
I am just wondering what the GP/ School nurse has said?
Request an adhd assessment if you think there is an unmet need, the waiting list is though very long
Have you tried the kids sleep drops from
holland and barrett or sleep mist. I also believe you can buy melatonin vitamins for kids - I think they are expensive but worth a try.

I am so sorry for you, this sounds hellish.

My daughter used to be a nightmare to get to sleep, we had to lie with her and read zillions of books then eventually whichever of us was lying with her would fall asleep yet she wouldn't. We gave up and co-slept. She moved out of our bed and onto our floor once at secondary school then a few months later back into her own room.

I know you have tried audiobooks but I wonder if it might work better if she listened to an audiobook through a headphone band like

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Headband-Headphones-Sweatproof-Bluetooth-Comfortable-Gray/dp/B0BXFHMMKF/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?adgrpid=56013297034&hvadid=578425752694&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=1006909&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=8728177062397310357&hvtargid=kwd-301219919430&hydadcr=5059_2287826&keywords=headphone+headband&qid=1706711530&sr=8-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

If she has it on quietly all night there is no harm done & if she wakes there will be a distraction. It works for my terrible insomnia - I go to bed planning to listen and inevitably fall asleep, then when I wake in the night the same happens. There is something about the sound coming straight into your ears that is particularly soothing.

You are having a fight every night and that is really horrible for you, also likely horrible for her. Stress at bedtime isn't conducive to sleep. I would stop fighting. She's old enough now to do her own bedtime routine of teeth etc. You can go to bed together & read or whatever and if she stays awake after you the world wont end.

Good luck

Get melatonin, why have you left it so long?
And spraying her with cold water to wake her is in my opinion abusive.
Does she have any other signs of neurodiversity? All the advice you're getting is potentially useless if she is autistic or adhd.

10 years of no sleep all with the same child, so she's now 10? What are you doing, waiting for her to leave home? Take away the TV and leave her to it. Screens off at 8.30, in bed by 9 pm, up to her if she reads and when she turns the lights off but she is NOT to disturb you, and she needs to be up for school or face the consequences from her teacher.

Honestly I would just tell her she has to stay in her room with the TV off. If she can't sleep she can read or play quietly but she must not come out of her room or wake me up. And she has to get up for school.
I also would not do things like tickle her back for ages to get her to sleep. I would do a bedtime routine and then she stays in her room unless it is an emergency.
You need to sleep.

Absolutely this! This situation is definitely having an extremely detrimental effect on you and your DC so that's the safest "medical" option.

I was a child who had trouble sleeping so I'd definitely go for it...

Good luck OP 🤗

And I would not in this instance even consider co sleeping. She will I suspect just keep you awake talking and wanting interaction. Do not co sleep, just in your bedroom and you stay there until morning.

OP if you drive and can get to the beach within an hour or so, can you that a few times? The ozone makes you sleepy? Have you listened to how to sleep better podcasts - lots of ideas and advice there about the room, breathing etc, when to get up to reset body clocks

I would consider if she is neurodiverse and if she is it won't get better in her teens. My son still wakes at 5am some days at aged 13 though after many years and lots of different techniques getting him to settle he is usually asleep by 9pm now . There's no simple answer every child is different

Dr Corbyns valerian, and a nicer mother, honestly, as some of your comments are really rather worrying.

I speak from experience, my son would be awake to midnight or 1am most nights from the age of about 3 onwards. Books, lights, tablet in bed, co sleeping, TV and films. I was about to give up as nothing worked and I was fed up with screaming fits every night. Tried the valerian for all of 2 weeks and he totally changed, hasn't had it since, about a year and a half ago. He was able to turn his brain off to be able to sleep as he put it. Calmed me down too and happy mama was back, not exhausted permanently on edge for bedtime mama!

But spraying with water, smacking? What on earth.

I agree smacking and spraying her with water is really not ok, what’s going on with that OP?

OP ignore those criticising you. Being severely sleep deprived is used as a torture method. You sound totally at the end of your tether.

My advice is to stop trying to get her to sleep. Instead focus on getting her to stay in her bedroom and not waking you up. You have told her how to get to sleep and you know it works. It is up to her now. Your focus has to be in stopping her waking you up so you can sleep.

Some people's circadian rhythms are biologically set to sleep later, wake later. You say she loves her morning sleep, this could be the problem. These people don't fit with society and its obsession with 9-5. I know that's no use to you now though.

Could you try melatonin from the GP? It could help her get to sleep. It won't keep her asleep though. Other than that, why does she wake you? Can't she stay in her room and read/watch tv until she drops back off?