10 years of terrible bedtimes I am broken

[shakeitoffshakeacocktail]

I cannot cope anymore
In 6 hours my alarm is going to go off and I am going to spray her with cold water to wake her up, take her to breakfast club and tell her teacher I am at breaking point

She can go and live with her dad for a while I am one person who has been mentally tortured from trying to help this child sleep for 10 years

She was exhausted today, she told me all evening she was tired, we did all the evening routine and she would not fall asleep. Usually I would sit next to her on the floor and tickle her back but I am recovering from a leg operation.

I fell asleep before her in my room, she had her tv on a sleep timer to go off at 11pm

At 12.15 she woke me up to tell me she couldn't sleep. She hasn't been trying to, even though she was exhausted

Thanks all

Tonight was good and bad

She was very aggravated and screamed the most ridiculous hateful speech at me, it wasn't even making sense half the time. Anger to prolong arguments and avoid going to sleep. This lasted from 8.30-9.30

She eventually calmed down as the cat was in the room and she stroked her when she was calm she stated
'I'm going in your bed then'
I said fine, she complained about the pillow, then the temperature then it was too dark etc

I put on indistinct cafe chatter on you tube (we've had this before)
She said she wasn't tired

I said prove it, lie down without talking with your eyes shut for 10 minutes, she was asleep after about 12 minutes

10pm tonight which is the best in a long time

We have a doctors appointment on Friday afternoon

You used to smack her??? And she had a fear?
Have l read that right?
The poor love.
I have no words.

Fear of smacking? Why would you smack her?

I never 'happily slapped' Mumsnet theatrics!

I never sprayed her with water this morning either 😂 I wrote that at 2am, although I may someday if she needed it!

You need to get some melatonin. Also stop focusing on sleep. It's become a battle ground. Smacking isn't going to help. The way she speaks to you sounds concerning. Do you shout at her?

You need to look up and follow Space (supportive parenting for anxious childhood emotions) training for anxiety developed by Dr Eli Lebowitz. Find it on YouTube.

It's an absolute game changer. I was exactly in your position - a 10 year old daughter who couldn't fall asleep because she wasn't tired until midnight. I had tried everything possible and hadn't had a proper sleep for 10 years.

I agree with the poster who says ADHD and a possible PDA profile as I've been through this with my (diagnosed) child. Gather up lots of information on these before you see the GP and ask for a referral. It's a long wait though. Good luck.

My friend thinks she might have undiagnosed ADHD but I try to put as few medicines in our bodies as possible but at this point it may be needed

You are doing her a massive disservice by not pursuing assessment of additional needs, due to your avoidance of meds.

Has she tried just lying with a book to read and a lamp on?

Definitely definitely try melatonin gummies - they will change your life, and hers.

"I'm going in your bed"? Who made her the boss? You don't need a doctor's appointment, you need to parent effectively. Personally I don't think smacking is a big deal, wouldn't do it myself but as a child in the 80s I got smacked plenty and so did most of my friends! The main problem with it is that it doesn't work.

All these posters saying get melatonin. A gp can’t prescribe it. It has to be a specialist.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow You can get the kids gummies in 1mg form online easily. It's an over the counter purchase in most countries. Why they make you jump through 7000 hoops here I don't know. I'd give it a go.

vitamingo.co.uk/product/spring-valley-kids-1-mg-melatonin-gummies-zero-sugar/

I would really recommend looking into an assessment for adhd/asd. This isn't just a sleep issue. Of course you're completely broken. You're not getting any support at all.

Agree with learning more about ADHD. It can affect sleep because their minds are too busy. The kicking off could also be meltdowns, from being over tired, over stimulated and unable to regulate/self soothe.
What does she do to relax, left to her own devices?
Learn about ADHD parenting techniques. Whether she has it or not, parenting in that way won’t do any harm, but could do a lot of good.
And get yourself some respite. You can’t be your best self when you are sleep deprived, frustrated and up against it.

More worrying is people saying it's harmless as if it has no side effects. Not saying it doesn't help some people but it can be detrimental. Made me drowsy in the day and didn't help me stay asleep. Also made my skin really itchy which doesn't help sleep. It baffles me people give it to children.

Agree melatonin is a drug and has side effects. No way would I give it to my child.
The OP is trying to make her DD sleep with lots of different methods which creates a lot of pressure on the DD to sleep. I always focused on staying in your room and resting.

Gp is first step and go from there. Our local hospital has a paediatric sleep disorder service which covers a number of sleep disorders in children and teenagers. Please see you gp.

I think the issue is that you've built up so much pressure on her needing to sleep that she has anxiety about actually falling asleep.

Saying things like "close you eyes" "stay under the covers" and talking to her about having an early night simply builds the pressure further. I'm a crap sleeper and the best thing anyone ever said to me about sleeping when I was younger was "it doesn't matter if you don't sleep." I remember it vividly- I wandered downstairs to complain to my dad that I couldn't sleep and instead of panicking of getting anxious like my mum would have he reacted very calmly and said "don't worry about it. It doesn't matter if you can't sleep. You might feel a bit tired tomorrow but that's ok too" and I sat downstairs with him for a bit whilst he read his book. It felt like a revelation.

Take the pressure off. Stop trying to force her to sleep. Stop making it into this enormous issue that needs to be solved and is driving you to madness.

Tonight don't mention her needing sleep or an early night. Do you normal routine but make it as relaxed and happy as possible. Don't put any pressure on her whatsoever. Don't do screens they don't help.

Another thing you could try is audio books/tonie box/Calm app sleep stories. They are a game changer for me and help my busy mind to rest.

My DD has adhd (diagnosed when she was 19) and this is exactly her when she was younger.

If I were you I'd look into parenting children with anxiety and work from there.

What we did;

Said it doesn't matter if you sleep, but please stay in your room from 10pm- 6am

Provided an Alexa for music and stories

We bought a new bed with a new mattress that she chose herself, redecorated the room etc. bought fairly lights to make it enticing.
This was quite expensive and didn't really make a difference but she did feel like we were trying to help.

Melatonin made no difference.

This. Melatonin made my Audhd worse.

I have a weird circadian rhythm, OP- I naturally fall asleep around 2 and wake up around 11am. It’s shit. It means I’m always tired when I’m on a regular work schedule. She may just be like this- in which case, probably she needs meds from the GP. I’d have thought they’d be able to prescribe this at 10.

The DD does not have a sleep disorder. Instead the DD is under enormous pressure to sleep. The pressure needs to be removed.