When ex moves to other side of the country ..

[wigwoo]

Hi all

Just interested in what others have done in similar scenarios.

I live with my 13 year old DD and my ex moved 150 odd miles away a few years ago. The contact in place is EOW weekend. I do one drive, he does the other. Always been a PITA but I do it to maintain contact.

Now he has moved even further away, we are talking a 5 hour distance, 10 hour round trip.

What arrangements would be fair?

My concerns are :

1. my DD - I feel for her that she has to do these long frequent drives as it is especially as occasionally she will want to do things with friends. I also don't think she should be subjected to being stuck in a car for that long on short periods.

2. my ex's relationship with me is acrimonious

3. I don't even think meeting half way is right. Firstly my DD still has to do these long journeys and secondly I do a weekly hobby every Sunday which means I have to stop. This hobby is only on Sunday afternoons and is my only joy that I do for myself. Obviously if i had to give it up so I could do a halfway drive I would. But it's the only thing that has kept me sane through a tricky few years and the one thing aside from my DD that makes me happy. It's not available to do any other day. Plus i feel aggrieved as it's not me that's moved. I've stayed in the same place all of my DD's life and my ex is moving further and further away.

I don't want to stop contact but what on earth can I do. It's such a long way now. I don't even know if I can afford such a jump in petrol costs too.

I mainly feel for my DD, and she doesn't like the current journey as it but we do it regularly.

What suggestions do anyone have?

Thank you :)

Your daughter is old enough now to decide what she wants.

Op don’t be bullied into accepting an arrangement which is unworkable for both dc and yourself. Clearly he has known for quite some time that he was intending to move? People don’t just up and move to the other side of the country without months of planning.

As someone else said, even if you were to apply C100 today it’s very unlikely you wouldn’t get a court date quickly. In some areas there’s a huge backlog due to covid for all but the most urgent cases.

Op I’m sorry he treated you so appallingly. Being scared really gives men like this an upper hand, I realised this after going to hell and back with the ExH. Call his bluff. Let him make an application to vary the order. He has chosen to move further away from his child. It is his responsibility to consider how he will maintain contact with his child.

Don't be intimidated by him. There is nothing he can do right now. Even if it goes to Court, it is not him making the decisions.

Have a think about what you would agree too (once a month, bank holidays only, increased holiday access etc) because you think it would be right for your daughter (and safe for you to do of course). Decide what you can be flexible on, and what you will not be flexible on.

Then email him to say that due to his relocation the existing CAO is no longer appropriate and must be amended. Due to the greatly increased travel distance, EOW visits are not possible as they would greatly impinge on your daughters welfare and wellbeing. Additionally you are not physically capable of safely driving that kind of distance in a weekend.

Propose some ideas of what you think would work and are prepared to agree to, like him staying with family nearby occasionally, extra holiday visits etc. If he responds with a no (likely and threats as well). Be very polite (always in writing as they can be produced in Court), and suggest a mediation session to come up with an agreeable alternative.

Could you apply for the voucher scheme for this? www.gov.uk/guidance/family-mediation-voucher-scheme?utm_source=CAIT&utm_campaign=mediation_vouchers#how-do-i-apply-for-a-mediation-voucher

Ensure you repeatedly state that you are putting your daughters needs first. He will come back with seeing him as much as possible is what is most important for her. And you can reply that indeed that is important but not more than her physical wellbeing (exhaustion) and mental health (seeing friends/sports etc).

Also say if you both cannot agree on a more appropriate agreement then the Court will have to decide and he is welcome to make an application to initiate that (let him do it so he can pay the fee).

And leave it there, and stop EOW contact until a new more appropriate agreement is in place. And in the new agreement, be ultra specific over every little detail, birthdays, xmas, timings, dates, locations, costs etc - because it is most definitely in the ambiguity where the narc ex's like to play.

What you ideally want is for him to take you to court so this can be sorted. He sounds like the sort of man who will insist he's being reasonable but needs an authority figure like a judge to about EOW contact 5 hours away.

With half-term at the end of this month, it's a shame that he won't think of his dd and renegotiate.

Jeez, my kids dad lives 10 minutes up the road (in the next village) and often they moan because they want to spend time with their mates at the weekends. I'd be fucked if I'd be driving long distances for someone who chose to move away from their child. Bollocks to that. Live your life and if he wants to maintain contact, let him be the one making the effort.

I can't believe how much traveling you do at the moment, he moved away.
I definitely wouldn't be doing the traveling he's taking the piss.

I would send him an email in regards to contact and state how he hasn't arranged anything yet in regards to contact and that it will obviously have to change as he is moving so far away as obviously every fortnight won't be fair on your child with all of the traveling and with her age now, (being a teenager and wanting to spend time with her friends.)

You could suggest to him coming down to see her himself every two weeks if he still wants to see her the same amount as before and staying in a hotel as it obviously won't be fair on your child to travel that often and for that long over such a short period of time over the weekend.

Otherwise propose contact in the half terms or long weekends (bank holidays) and tell him he will have to do the traveling as it's not financially viable for you to and you don't have the time to travel 10 hours there and back for him to see his daughter, as he has had the child maintenance reduced on the terms that he has to travel to see his daughter he can do just that.

Don't let him bully you OP if it goes to court it's likely the judge won't agree with him on you traveling that far.
Also her opinion will be taken into account now with her being 13.
Its way too much traveling he also should have told you sooner.

If he is likely to play silly buggers and return your dd late so she misses out on school, would it be worth speaking to the safeguarding and/or attendance specialists at school, to pre-empt any problems?

You could ask their advice - both because you’re worried about ex moving away and the knock on effects on your dd - from not having time to do all her weekend homework, missing friends, physical effects of travelling so much, feeling worried about ‘taking sides’ between parents and not saying what she really wants, mental effects of dad moving hours further away from her etc.

In addition there’s the fact that previously he has form for not returning dd which means that she misses school. And that this is something you do not condone, you do not want your dd missing school, and you certainly want to ensure that neither you nor your dd get punished if he prevents her from going to school.

Also if you are able to explain what he is like, is there any support that the school would be able to provide for your dd (and maybe you too) in the circumstances.

Might all help your dd to cope now but will also help if your ex starts kicking off and if there are any issues later.

As others have said, make sure everything is done in writing and ensure that you frame the narrative the way that you want it seeing. So always point out that he is the one that has broken the order by moving so very far away and leaving it to the last minute to inform you of the change rather than actively looking at what is best for your dd when making massive changes. And if he writes down that you are the one that is not following the order, always ensure that you reply to say that he is the one breaking the order rather than leaving the statement go unchallenged, plus each time put in what your new very reasonable and dd-based suggestions are so that there can be no way that he can claim that he thought you agreed with him or didn’t understand that a new agreement was necessary after he broke the old one. If you are able to get any info from school as to their expectations of time spent doing homework and revision (and any other stuff, including social) over the next few years to support the need for change and being more dd focussed that would be great too.

How good a relationship do you have with any of his friends or relations that live in his current town or near you - good enough to arrange drop off with any of them as an interim measure? Not ideal as you ideally should be reducing the current times, but one to bear in mind if you do get on well with any of them.

Good luck!

I would honestly love to know if 5 hours is realistic in Friday evening traffic.

I also wonder if actually he is relying on you to stop contact so it isn't him doing it? Can't imaging is current partner being thrilled that he is going to be AWOL every other Sunday for 10 hours?

Yes that's a good point about traffic adding time onto the journey.
I live 4 hours away from family and even a couple of accidents along the way can add another couple of hours on time of arrival.

At 13 I would send her by train. It isn't safe for you to do all that driving after a day at work.
If you go with her the first time and she has a charged up mobile to call with any problems it should be ok. If possible select a direct line, even if it means ex had to travel a bit further than his local station to collect.

Do children of that age not have to do homework any more? I spent all Friday evening & Sunday afternoon/evening doing homework at that age, as did my DC!

I wouldn't send her by train I know where I am there are quite a few changes along the way and it doesn't shave anything off of the traveling time.
I also think at 13 it's not something I would have wanted to do I wouldn't have felt confident enough on my own to navigate train stations I had never been to and having to deal with delays that may happen along the way being such a young lone female I wouldn't have liked being on my own in places I would not be familiar with.

I'm not sure how he told you about the move, but I would get all the information in writing by email. I would be emailing stating "as you only informed me and DD on x date that you are moving xx miles further away, we need to relook at the arrangements due to the distance. Until then we will pause the visits. Can you please let me know your suggestions". Basically let him hang himself and admit in writing that he expects you to still do the drive (but he what, expects you to drive so late home?), and DD to do such a long drive every other week. I can't imagine he is even going to like doing the long drive to you and back to drop her off. If it did go to once a month I would not be offering more holiday time. She is getting older, wanting hobbies, friendships. Revision and exams will be starting, there needs to be flexibility in the future, else she may start refusing to go. And how the heck you got stuck by the courts for doing a leg of the trip I dont know. I thought it was weighted to the person that moved. And I would be stating to him/court that the extra travel would cost you your free time, wear and tear on the car and petrol. Play him at his own game. And make him do all the damn donkey work. He is being ridiculous. Nobody would expect you to travel 10 hours in a day.

Thank you everyone.

I guess I'm scared because I know what he is like and won't stop until he gets his own way. I cringe at the things I have done previously just to appease him and avoid conflict.

I did reply asking why I wasn't informed sooner so we had time to think of what to do and he claims he only got confirmation recently, when I said he should have told me when plans were processing he effectively told me it was none of my business.

He keeps asking for my suggestions and when I've asked for is it to simply stick to the current order. That's all he comes go with.

I have since replied (as his contact day is very close and I'm feeling really anxious about what exactly is going on) that I think he should have more FaceTime , increase on holidays and once a month but said I think he should do all driving. Also suggested I can still make her available as normal for him to see her here
Locally. I know for a fact he will say no and say he wants to stick to the order - leaving me in a situation where I'm forced to break it. As someone pointed out I think the most I could offer is meet him half way once a month and he does the return leg.

I did ask people with experience and I've been advised that because the child is the most important aspect (as it should be) , the dont really take into account the parents needs or wellbeing.

His partner has two kids so I wonder what arrangement she has with their dad now.

He hasn't replied to me yet and will prob reply at the last minute. I think he's trying to rush me into a decision to get his own way.

We do have court anyway in a month to firm up other stuff so I just have to ride it out until then.

I'm so scared of him and no one understand because he's never been violent. I don't understand it myself.

Thank you everyone x

Are you scared of him or are you scared of the courts?

Can you try to stand back for a moment and look at this as an outside observer? Pretend it’s not you? ... from our here it is really obvious that you are not breaking the order - he is making the order worthless.

Hi ex, the current order doesn’t allow for your choosing to move a further 3 hours (or whatever) away, it’s too much driving for dd to do every other weekend. I think she could do it once a month at most perhaps, it’s all been sprung on me as you know so I need a week to think it through. We can go back to court if you want to work out what’s reasonable given your choice to move away, but in the interim I’ll get back to you next week on what’s feasible. You will have to do more travel as a result of this obviously, or it’s not fair on dd otherwise.

I mean what if he moved to another country? There is no chance in hell you could be called out for breach of the court order. What if you had a car accident and were hospitalised for a month? You couldn’t take her. Not a breach, and it doesn’t matter what he wants to say about it.

Whilst the child’s needs do come first, the decision isn’t made in a complete vacuum. The court will look at the wider implications and the impact this may have on the wider family on both sides.

Personally I wouldn’t agree to putting her on a train alone on a Friday night. I don’t think the average 13 year old child is capable of navigating cancelled, delayed trains or any other incident alone.

For this other issue is it a child arrangement order? Do you have a solicitor or are you self representing? Because it sounds like you need some additional support in advocating for yourself and your daughter. It should be very obvious to the court, but tell them why you don’t think EOW isn’t possible. It’s important how you frame your concerns, be sure to highlight them all as well as the risk he may not return DD. The practicalities of getting there after work, the added cost or the potential overnight hotel stay, the impact on dc’s school work, impact on her relationships with her friends, does she currently do hobbies? All this will come into play in any decision.

Please get some RL support if you’re able to. Violence isn’t just physical. What he is doing is just as damaging to you. You will need boundaries of steel. The key is to not engage with the behaviour, state your position and ignore, ignore ignore.

If you post in Legal you will get some reassurance around the court order. Your ex sounds very controlling. Have you done the freedom programme?
Talk to Women's Aid.
Sorry you are going through all this.

That’s way too much and unrealistic.
I don’t think you are scared of him, I think your scared of the courts or “breaking rules”. Are you a people pleaser?

Break the order and go back to court for a more realistic one. If he has a child he can’t just keep moving further away, has he taken his daughter into account with regards to his moves? (The answer is no!)

I can't speak on legal terms, but I have had a couple of friends who have had this

Friend A, refused, demanded he take her to court (think it was 3 hours one way) her 2 were teenagers and didn't want to spend time with anyone but their friends, he now gets them on certain holidays,

Friend B was very different because her ex was armed forces and she was willing to faciliate contact if/when he moved base, as it wasn't his decision

I will say DSS is teenager and finds our place very boring, he has no friends here, his little brother is boring etc ect ect, we live 10 minutes away. I think we are now down to once every two weeks because he has a life and we are very boring. His choice and to be honest I think we are lucky with the once every two weeks, so I couldn't imagine if we were further away

im not an expert in this by any means , but when i had a court ordered contact in place for a dd which was eow , it said i had to make her avaliable for contact between x and x , there was no mention on it of i had to take her to him , i think hes being unreasonable , if he still wants to maintain contact with her ,but move bloody miles away its on him to get her and bring her back id say ,

there was dv with my ex ,he could be a nightmare . when dd was 11 she was withdrawn and upset after coming back ,wouldnt tell me what was wrong so i asked her to talk to her fav teacher at school and next thing i know they are ringing me at work to tell me social services have been contacted as they are concerned . ss wasted no time ringing me , she said the regarded that my dd was at risk ,dd has told teacher she hated having to go but was afraid to say so because of his temper , ss said i shouldnt send her anymore as they thought she might be at risk ,to ignore the court order and if he then took me back to court to challenge it then the court would take her wishes into account as at 11 she was old enough to be able to speak her mind .

Ex has made his choice - he's picked moving further away over DD. There is no way to soften that blow, she is going to have to come to terms with where that leaves her now and in the future. All you can do is guide her to make decisions which suit her and at her age she will want to have a life of her own involving activities and friends and not 10 hours in a car every other weekend.

Do not facilitate contact from this point- it's not in DD's best interests. Ex needs to understand he has to put the work in without you facilitating, you've done more than your fair share of that. He needs to build his own relationship with his DD as she gets older, not only when it works for him. It's a crap situation for DD but she's old enough now to see it for what it is, she will later anyway and in the meantime she will have made a lot of unnecessary sacrifices as will you to end up at the same point.

I would just tell him that you will not be doing it and let him take you back to court. All the court will do is to see if you can come to some arrangement eg only holidays if not they will decide. You just state its not in your daughters best interests to be doing all that travelling, how expensive it is for you and the amount of tine it will take you. They do not punish you. If you do it once, he will expect it to continue.

I hope this works out well for your daughter and you. He is an arse. You, on the other hand, are a loving and committed parent who wants the best for your daughter.